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When is a manufactured home no longer a manufactured home?

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Verne Hebert

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Montana
I just looked at the most extreme example of a conversion of a manufactured home I have ever seen.

It sits on a 5 acre parcel on the river; the area is unzoned.

The exterior was removed to the 3" studs and furred to 6" studs, R-19, rigid insulation over the studs, and typical LP siding. All new vinyl windows, interior completely sheetrocked with modified interior walls, kitchens and bathrooms completely remodeled from the studs, complete engineeered roof trussing with full length covered veranda style porch, rear enclosed porch, new 30 yr comp roofing. All new doors and trim.

The only part of the original man home remaining is the subfloor and steel beams. From the street it looks like a typical SFR.

Now the problem, obviously, is the 1004 form--it has a line and a square with reference to manufactured home---and the refi rate will correspond to the type of improvement.

Thoughts? Discussion?
 

wyecoyote

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Gvmt Agency, FNMA, HUD, VA etc.
State
Washington
Three model matches within 6 months within 1 mile of the subject.

To me this is still a manufactured house with updating and remodeling. Possibly a higher end manufactured house but still a manufactured house. What year was it built? If built in the post HUD 1970's early 80's might compare with newer manufactured houses.

Ryan
 

Farm Gal

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Nebraska
e_YEW.

Why'd they bother?

First off: What's the foundation like?

I have to think that the presence of the undercarriage/floor might still cause issues, but I'd tend to say this is no longer exactly manufactured: it IS however atypical construction.

I had one with similar pedigree, but they had beefed up the floor to the point it no longer 'felt' manufactured. In fact it felt 'better' than most mid range new construction in the area :roll:

Lots of new construction has steel I-beams, instead of gluelams... I kind-of, sort-of think this is comparable? I think disclosure and explanation of your logic is in order, but I kinda sorta mostly today think it isn't (maybe?).

Oh yeah: FULL DISCLOSURE FULL DISCLOSURE FULL DISCLOSURE!!!
 

Judy Whitehead (Florida)

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Joined
Jan 20, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Florida
Believe it or not, I had one kind of like this a few years ago. First of all, the homeowner asked the county assessor to come out and pronounce it as conventionally constructed, which they did. In Florida now, you can't get away with this due to our state building standards for hurricanes, in addition to the changes to the southern building code. But he did...

This was a (orginally) a manufactured home which had been extensively remodeled and had several additions, including a second story on top of one of the additions. I appraised it as a "conventionally" constructed home and cited that the county (after inspecting it) also considered it to be so. I used conventionally constructed comps.

The lender called me and said that it had been "reviewed" from someone several states away and of course they didn't know what I was talking about and wanted "manufactured home" comps. I told them no, that it had to be one or the other and that I was using the county expert's opinion, as well as my own observation, to base my appraisal on. I would not give them manufactured home comps if that was not what I was appraising.

But, no matter how nice...if it was hauled in there on tires by a truck and could be hauled out again...it is a "manufactured" (formerly mobile) home.
 

Terrel L. Shields

Elite Member
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Joined
May 2, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Arkansas
A few years ago the exact situation came up here on an FHA appraisal and the appraiser (my partner I lost to cancer a couple of years ago) reported the subframe and inability to determine the actual age of that portion of the dwelling. The borrower and the realtor flopped around like trout on a flat rock but it was a reject period. The market also seems to recognize that. It did not sell well with extended DOMs and a lower price.

Why? dangifino. The young friend of mine bought a little house and I told her not to remodel. It was older house and would sell well kept in good condition. If you want a bigger house, sell this one, buy another. But lo and behold she just couldn't help herself, started by converting it to 1 big bedroom and walk in closet, 1 bath. Her and hubby split, couldn't sell it for what they had put in it, and the bank took it back. Shot her credit to bits and the bank wants 10K less than she gave because no one wants a 1 bedroom house....it cost to convert and it will cost to change it back. in tother werds, I would never invest one dime extra in a MH. A deck maybe.
ter
 

Jo Ann Meyer Stratton

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Arizona
My stock answer would be once a manufactured or mobile home--always a manufactured or mobile home. But there could be some unusual, very unusual circumstances. In your case is the plumbing still located in the same locations? Is there any change in floor level between the manufactured home and the site built addition? Are there any clues physically that once upon a time a manufactured home was inside this structure? If someone can tell by looking at it that the original structure was a manufactured home or HUD or MHMA codes are still obvious for the plumbing, etc--it is still a manufactured home. But everything, and I mean everything has been reconstructed to a site built code, a building inspector or a licensed contractor has checked out everything and will swear that the home is now built to a site built home--it might be considered a site built house. I appraised a home several years ago started out as a 1963 single wide. Then they built around and over it a home of slump block for all the exterior walls with a steeply pitched roof and composition shingles. So walking around the outside it looked like a house. Then I opened a door to the storage room and there was one back wall for the storage room a metal sided mobile home. Go inside all the site built structure was at ground level. But the mobile home was still sitting there on its wheels and axles so two steps up to the original mobile home floor level. Some of the mobile home exterior walls had been removed to make it open to the site built rooms. But the bath and kitchen plumbing fixtures were still in the original location. All walls had been sheetrocked ( installed over the original exterior metal siding in places), all new cabinets, doors, windows, trim, etc. Most ironic thing was the original living room window (now the dining room), it was at the front end and extended out about a foot. So the slump block wall was a foot in front of the base of the mobile home and they had built a book case inside the window frame--outside was solid slump block. Anyway for comparables I found some double wide manufactured homes, some homeowner site built, and even had a sale that was several years old of another old mobile home that was now inside of a block house. And a very lengthly addendum that described everything. Very detailed sketch so the underwriter could see the room layout, etc. Lots of exterior and interior photos. Never heard a word from anyone, so have no idea if it funded or not or how it funded. But that was their problem, not mine.
 

Wally Jones

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Florida
I've done three in the past two years. Two of them were just as you describe, Verne, completely rebuilt except for the sub-flooring and steel beams. (When I went to inspect these two, I drove by them twice since I was looking for a manufactured home and I knew these weren't my subjects! Finally stopped in to ask directions and when the owners told me I was in the right place, I knew I was in trouble!) In each instance, after LENGTHY discussions with the clients, I did the same as Jo Ann - provided four comps each of site built and manufactured homes. LOTS of pictures, sketch details and disclosing and explaining. The county taxed all three of these as manufactured homes. If you haven't already done so, you might want to discuss your extra fee with your client......... :lol:
 

Verne Hebert

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Montana
Thanks for the thorough responses. What I hear ya' saying is don't put lipstick on the pig (it is Friday though).

Everyone has delicately danced around the question of the line and box in the 1004 form; and we know what these mean in terms of loan rate.

The county did come out and converted taxation to real property-but in this county that doesn't mean anything; one has the option of taxation as real or personal property on manufactured homes; so that don't hold much water.

All plumbing locations are the same. All one elevation of subfloor still.

I don't have a problem with comps or valuing the property-it is addressing the box and line--I don't think it will fund without these defined. The market will recognized this as a mid to higher end manufactured--and maybe that answers the question.
 

Farm Gal

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Nebraska
:lol:
I think you answered your question! Excellent work!

The last one I did that had such extensive 'remodeling' (nothing original left but the floor framing :roll: ) predated the current Fannie Regs...

Is this thing pre-76 or post? Can you get the required numbers?

good luck!
 
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