NAR - Appraisal Institute

[Ken B]

The phrase "guilty by affiliation" comes to mind.

What would be the advantage to either organization for such an affiliation?

 

[Randolph Kinney]

I know I don't have a good understanding of NAR or the AI. Maybe some one can explain to me why it becomes a good idea for these two to "affiliate"? Who gains? Who loses? What will they be able to do now by affiliation that they could not do before affiliation?

 

[Todd Ruhl]

The proposal on the table is AFFILIATION. The Bylaws and Constitution of the National Association of Realtors provides for Institutes, Societies and Councils. These are separately incorporated organizations with their own governance structure, elected officers and directors and separate budgets. Institutes, Societies and Councils determine their own dues. Institutes, Societies and Councils develop their own policies and procedures.

No organization is being absorbed into another. No organization is merging with another.

It's best to avoid characterizing this proposal as something it is not.

Semantics aside...the characterization is still valid. The valuation profession becoming "affiliated" with the sales profession makes about as much sense as appraisers becoming "affiliated" with lenders. I don't wish to start quoting USPAP or various paragraphs from the Appraiser's Certification, but the intent of impartiality and independence is quite clear.

 

[Abschatzer]

Don't do it NAR they are just trying to steal your data.

South Florida MLS is run by first american (MLXchange). I wonder...

AI needs to stand up for profession and stop this political and p.r. BS.

 

[Francois K. Gregoire]

Semantics aside...the characterization is still valid. The valuation profession becoming "affiliated" with the sales profession makes about as much sense as appraisers becoming "affiliated" with lenders. I don't wish to start quoting USPAP or various paragraphs from the Appraiser's Certification, but the intent of impartiality and independence is quite clear.

Semantics or no semantics, the characterization holds no water. Neither the USPAP, Standards Rule 2-3, the Ethics Rule or the Fannie Mae Certification and Limiting Conditions has any application to two associations having an affiliation.

Over 30,000 licensed and certified appraisers are REALTORS already, for crying out loud.

 

[Farm Gal]

Frank:

The ALLEGED ties between certain financially affiliated parties called lenders, who also own/operate the software used for data selection alarms me.

The most recent upgrades to the MLS system in my hometown (which thank all the powers that be I no longer have to use or rely upon) - gives me the screaming willies. And (can you hear the chopper arms a whirlin?) I am not entirely convinced that mandated change is an accident... a lot of times a different set of search parameters that HSOULD have brought up certain sales does not ... and for no valid reason I can see in analysis of the search parameters!

I am not saying that certain alliances are not for the betterment of a certain profession and their working environment, how ever sometimes such alliances are forged in hell and the debils got the mojo on!

I figure certain affiliations are fine - I just hope the intended purpose of this one is on the side of the angels.

 

[Mr Rex]

Semantics or no semantics, the characterization holds no water. Neither the USPAP, Standards Rule 2-3, the Ethics Rule or the Fannie Mae Certification and Limiting Conditions has any application to two associations having an affiliation.

Over 30,000 licensed and certified appraisers are REALTORS already, for crying out loud.[/quote]


I'd bet almost 100% of appraisers are licensed drivers. Guess we should affiliate with AAA too.

 

[Ken B]

Semantics or no semantics, the characterization holds no water. Neither the USPAP, Standards Rule 2-3, the Ethics Rule or the Fannie Mae Certification and Limiting Conditions has any application to two associations having an affiliation.

Over 30,000 licensed and certified appraisers are REALTORS already, for crying out loud.[/quote]


I'd bet almost 100% of appraisers are licensed drivers. Guess we should affiliate with AAA too.

I think the point my smartalek friend is making is that, with the exception of those appraisers that also wear the salesperson/broker hat, appraisers who are Realtors chose to be so due to the tools (MLS data) that such membership provides. If AI and NAR become affiliates, what will that do to improve business at the member level? As an AI member, will membership dues associated with being a Realtor decrease? I guarantee you that is not going to happen.

NAR approached AI. Why? What advantage do they percieve in the relationship?

 

[Francois K. Gregoire]

I think the point my smartalek friend is making is that, with the exception of those appraisers that also wear the salesperson/broker hat, appraisers who are Realtors chose to be so due to the tools (MLS data) that such membership provides.

Appraisers belonging to a local association and the national association and taking advantage of only the MLS are missing much. Plenty of real estate brokers and sales associates have the same perception; the only benefit is MLS. IMNSHO these folks are shortsighted.

If AI and NAR become affiliates, what will that do to improve business at the member level? As an AI member, will membership dues associated with being a Realtor decrease? I guarantee you that is not going to happen.

Not being a member of the AI, there is no way to speculate about dues for that organization. If AI members want to be Realtors, they will pay Realtor dues. If not, they will pay Institute Affiliate dues.

As an affiliate, there may be closer interaction between local AI Chapters and local associations. If appraisers, however, choose to continue viewing those involved in brokerage as the great unwashed, it's unlikely they will see any real business benefit.

NAR approached AI. Why? What advantage do they perceive in the relationship?

NAR has affiliates for just about every real estate specialty in existence; property managers, commercial brokers, industrial brokers, land and farm brokers, managers, residential specialists, international specialists, buyer's brokers, auctioneers, resorts and second homes, counsellors, etc. NAR doe not have an affiliate for real property appraisers. At one time they did, the American Institute of Real Estate Appraisers-now the Appraisal Institute.

Based upon a survey of appraiser members conducted by NAR, one of the most requested services is real property appraisal education. Rather than develop it from scratch, one way to be able to sanction education is to affiliate with the AI and promote their education. NAR promotes only that education available through NAR or its institutes, societies and councils.

There's two reasons. Will those suffice for the time being?

 

[Ken B]

Being an AI member and previously a Realtor member, I paid membership dues to both organizations. I do not foresee there being any change to that expense.

The organizations you refer to as affliate members are associated with marketing, sale, and leasing of real property. Those interests often conflict with the appraisal of said property. Could NAR benefit from an affiliation with AI? In terms of empire building, it would seem so.

Agents and brokers, by their very basic fiduciary relationship with their clients, are not interested in "doing right" with regard to market value. If they are a selling agent, they want the highest possible price for their client. If they are a buyer broker, they want the lowest possible price for their client. Let's not even get into the conflict of interest associated with someone paid by commission trying to get the lowest possible price.

I have, on two occasions in the past, actively participated in the RE sales profession. I left both times because of the open, blatent, even expected less than ethical conduct by the sales agents. I had a "top producer" advise me, on one particular deal with some minor issues, to "just lie to them". "Them" being my client. I have observed top producers repeatedly pay fines to the MLS service for purposely reporting inaccurate data in the MLS with the reasoning that is was just a "cost of business". As an appraiser, I have been repeatedly lied to, threatened, yelled at, told it was my "job to support the contract", refused information, given long lists of irrelevant information as part of a reconsideration of value process, etc, etc, etc. I have sat in the back of a sales training class and listened to a broker from a "top producing" office bad-mouth appraisers until such time as he asked why some people were nervously laughing. When it was noted that an appraiser was in the class, he, being the smartass that he was, suggested perhaps I would like to teach the class. Which I did for a couple of other class members during a break because the broker couldn't teach his way out of paper bag.

Salespeople and brokers: the great unwashed? It is a perception they seem all to eager to project.

Why do Realtor appraisers request education from NAR? I think it is a reasonable assumption that it is because they don't want to pay the higher expense associated with AI educational offerings. Will AI offer discounts to NAR members as a result of the affliation? How does that benefit AI? As a designated AI member, that is my question. What is the benefit of the relationship to me? I don't really care about the benefit to Realtor-appraisers. I understand their perceived advantages.