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Subject as it's own comp.

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From a devils advocate view point, wouldn't that mean whenever a purchase appraisal is done, that you should appraise to the contract because that is the best data that could ever exist for that subject ?

No, for several reasons.
  • Market aren't perfect. Value, IMHO, is more correctly described as a range, but clients want us to force it to a point.
  • Also contract price isn't always market value. For example, what happened over the past several years is that buyer and seller agreed to a price, then concessions, gifts of equity, and other nonsense were added to the actual price paid. The appraiser has to consider that when examining the prior sales price.
 
I should also add that it is well known that certain intended users have certain guidelines regarding this issue. However, they are just that: guidelines. The appraiser should never lose sight of what they are doing because of an assignment condition.
 
I completely agree. Joyce thinks we are smoking those happy cigarettes.

Then if all arm's length transactions are truly THE BEST sales, why waste money on an appraisal? Just have someone an affidavit as to the arm's length and lend on the contract price.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
 
Then if all arm's length transactions are truly THE BEST sales, why waste money on an appraisal? Just have someone an affidavit as to the arm's length and lend on the contract price.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

JOyce,

I think you are missing the point, The subject is now taking a second out after it sold. I think there are 3 things that changes the value of the subject after the sale. market condition, cond. of the property and sells concesions made at the time of the sale. say he does not like the home so he puts it bake on the market, and it dropped 6% or whent up, would he not ask for the higher or lower (not liking the lower) to sell it. would a buyer look at what the market is doing? would you pay 6% more then its worth? would you not buy it for the fair market value at the time of the new sale? 2nd I am not appraising it for a sale, when you appraise for a sale are you not making sure the contract price is fair, for all concern, a sale is not completed until it closes, I have appraised homes for less then the contact price as the market did not support the contact price, there are people out there who buy homes above and below market value, our job is to be sure it is a fair price for our client....
 
I'll take a stab. There are problems with using subject as a comp. First, there are some people who don't like the idea of - assuming to be true in the premises of an argument, the very thing the argument is supposed to prove. That is, 'it's worth five dollars because that's what you paid for it' is not exactly an independent appraisal. It's simply repeating the owner's opinion of value, not developing your own.

Second, is there any literature on the "correctly employed..recognized methods" of using something as a comp for itself?

Third, I am naive enough to believe that sales comparison is supposed to be an application of the so-called "principle of substitution." You know, value being set by the price of substitutes. All that stuff? Using something as a "comp" for itself isn't just a verbal oxymoron. An asset cannot substitute for itself.
 
JOyce,

I think you are missing the point, The subject is now taking a second out after it sold. I think there are 3 things that changes the value of the subject after the sale. market condition, cond. of the property and sells concesions made at the time of the sale. say he does not like the home so he puts it bake on the market, and it dropped 6% or whent up, would he not ask for the higher or lower (not liking the lower) to sell it. would a buyer look at what the market is doing? would you pay 6% more then its worth? would you not buy it for the fair market value at the time of the new sale? 2nd I am not appraising it for a sale, when you appraise for a sale are you not making sure the contract price is fair, for all concern, a sale is not completed until it closes, I have appraised homes for less then the contact price as the market did not support the contact price, there are people out there who buy homes above and below market value, our job is to be sure it is a fair price for our client....

No, I really am not missing the point, I simply disagree with you. If you use the subject's property as a comp for itself in a declining market, what data are using to prove the drop in values?

Again, pertinent information is to be gained by the subject's last sale, current listing and/or current pending sale, but it has to be analyzed within the context of other market data.
 
Good post Steven. Yes, the subject's "independence" issue is what sends my radar up. Let me ask another question, suppose we are doing a refi appraisal on a home, and the exact same model located next door just sold one month ago, but the purchaser was the subject owner. How good of a comp would this be for our subject?
 
From Fannie herself:

XI, 406.02: Selection of Comparable Sales (06/30/02)
We require an appraiser to research, analyze, and consider influences that may affect value based on market evidence (such as closed sales, contract sales, and properties for sale in the market area; market studies; etc.). For example, if a property is located in a neighborhood that includes (or is close to) an airport or hazardous waste site or that has relatively high property taxes or vacant or boarded-up properties, we expect the appraiser to research, analyze and use comparable sales from the same neighborhood or affected area (whenever possible) in his or her analysis. This will ensure that any effect of these value-influencing characteristics is taken into consideration in the development of the opinion of value for the property.
If a property is located in an area in which there is a shortage of truly comparable sales—either because of the nature of the property improvements or the relatively low number of sales transactions in the neighborhood—the appraiser might need to use as comparable sales properties that are not truly comparable to the subject property or properties that are located in competing neighborhoods. In some situations, sales of properties that are not truly comparable or sales of properties that are located in competing neighborhoods may simply be the best comparables available and the most appropriate for the appraiser’s analysis. The use of such comparables is acceptable as long as the appraiser adequately documents his or her analysis and explains why these comparable sales were used (including a discussion of how a competing neighborhood is comparable to the subject neighborhood).
The appraiser must report a minimum of three comparable sales as part of the sales comparison approach to value. The appraiser may submit more than three comparable sales to support his or her opinion of market value, as long as at least three are actual settled or closed sales. Generally, the appraiser should use comparable sales that have been settled or closed within the last 12 months. However, the appraiser may use older comparable sales if he or she believes that it is appropriate, and selects comparable sales that are the best indicators of value for the subject property. The appraiser must comment on the reasons for using any comparable sales that are more than six months old. For example, if the subject property is located in a rural area that has minimal sales activity, the appraiser may not be able to locate three truly comparable sales that sold in the last 12 months. In this case, the appraiser may use older comparable sales as long as he or she explains why they are being used.

The appraiser may use the subject property as a fourth comparable sale or as supporting data if the property previously was sold (and closed or settled). If the appraiser believes that it is appropriate, he or she also may use contract offerings and current listings as supporting data. However, in no instance may the appraiser create comparable sales by combining vacant land sales with the contract purchase price of a home (although this type of information may be included as additional supporting documentation).

For properties that are in established subdivisions or for units in established condominium or PUD projects that have resale activity, the appraiser should use comparable sales from within the same subdivision or project as the subject property if there are any available. Resale activity from within the subdivision or project should be the best indicator of value for properties in that subdivision or project. If the appraiser uses sales of comparable properties that are located outside of the subject neighborhood, he or she must include an explanation with the analysis.
For properties in new subdivisions or for units in new (or recently converted) condominium or PUD projects, the appraiser must compare the subject property to other properties in its general market area as well as to properties within the subject subdivision or project. This comparison should help demonstrate market acceptance of new developments and the properties within them. Generally, the appraiser should select one comparable sale from the subject subdivision or project and one comparable sale from outside the subject subdivision or project. The third comparable sale can be from inside or outside of the subject subdivision or project, as long as the appraiser considers it to be a good indicator of value for the subject property. In selecting the comparables, the appraiser should keep in mind that sales or resales from within the subject subdivision or project are preferable to sales from outside the subdivision or project as long as the developer or builder of the subject property is not involved in the transactions.
Because rural properties often have large lot sizes and rural locations can be relatively undeveloped, there may be a shortage (or absence) of recent truly comparable sales in the immediate vicinity of a subject property that is in a rural location. This means that the appraiser often will need to select comparable sales that are located a considerable distance from the subject property. In such cases, the appraiser must use his or her knowledge of the area and apply good judgment in selecting comparable sales that are the best indicators of value for the subject property. The appraiser should include an explanation of why the particular comparables were selected in his or her analysis.
 
You have three good comps saying the value falls between $173K and $176K. What is the point of gridding out the subject with adjustments when your addenda on the adjustments of the comps would be more than suffice in explaining the opinion of value? I for one, will never grid out the subject vs itself. I would explain the declining market area thoroughly and let that steer the value.
 
Don,

Thank you! I knew that was in there but its good to have another crazy person post it.

What would you peers do? Apparently some of my peers at fannie think its not actually a bad idea. They do temper it, but none the less it is valid in there view.
 
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