Condominium with no HOA or dues

[Riick]

There are a few hundred 2-unit "condominiums" in one development in Phila.
Conversion.
Stacked apartments in row homes, were converted to condominium, but not one large condo; instead each row property, containing 2 apartments, was converted into one condominium - 2 units / members in each condo.
NO condo fees, I seriously doubt any one can FIND any condo documents.
Roof goes bad, get hold of your neighbor:
"Charlie I need $3k from you; You and I need a new roof!"

 

[c w d]

2 unit condos.....never heard of it.....sounds more like a townhouse. If there is no association then who owns the common elements? Who owns the land? If there are only two owners, no association, wouldn't this revert to a townhouse type of ownership? I.E. no longer considered a condo.

Now now Joyce, if you're going to be snooty about paying for the title & permit searches we're just not going to send you any more business!!

 

[Don Clark]

2 unit condos.....never heard of it.....sounds more like a townhouse. If there is no association then who owns the common elements? Who owns the land? If there are only two owners, no association, wouldn't this revert to a townhouse type of ownership? I.E. no longer considered a condo.

Now now Joyce, if you're going to be snooty about paying for the title & permit searches we're just not going to send you any more business!!

For the 1,999th time ..."A condominium is a form of ownership, not an archetectural style". There are several hundred 2 unit condos in my market. We also have many 4,6, and 8 unit condos all without a condo fee, no association, nadda. Just because you have never seen one before, don't assume they do not exist. Now, i am talking about condo's without any condo fees, not aliens or UFO's.

 

[Lee Lansford]

For the 1,999th time ..."A condominium is a form of ownership, not an archetectural style". There are several hundred 2 unit condos in my market. We also have many 4,6, and 8 unit condos all without a condo fee, no association, nadda. Just because you have never seen one before, don't assume they do not exist. Now, i am talking about condo's without any condo fees, not aliens or UFO's.

Don, you make too much sense! Shame on you!

--Lee

 

[Carnivore]

Don, you make too much sense! Shame on you!

--Lee

He does make sense, the problem with real property rights is that the laws differ from one state to another. I dont know about Virginia.

For example(and I could be wrong), I dont believe you can have a condo form of ownership in NC without Condo Docs and certs. If these were not to exist then a two unit improvement on one site with two owners would be just that a two units improvement with two(or possibly more) owners.

multiple ownership
A form of ownership whereby two or more people or entities own interests in the same real property at the same time. There are three basic forms of multiple ownership of real property: tenancy in common, joint tenancy, and tenancy by the entirety. (R.S. Means)

Typically a condo could be decribed in this way:

condominium ownership
A form of fee ownership of separate units or portions of multiunit buildings that provides for formal filing and recording of a divided interest in real property.

 

[Marcia Langley]

I am doing an appraisal on a property that according to the city is a condominium per thier requirements. The plat map shows it as a condominium also. However, according to the homeowner, there are no HOA dues or homeowner association. I have not run into this before. Is it possible to have a condominium without HOA dues?

Thanks for any help

Yes. But your client will want to know whether or what sort of agreement exists for any shared expenses.

If there is none, just say so. the client may reuire it of the borrower but that is after the fact of your appraisal. That requirement may not be part of your appraisal unless it was value affecting.

In the past, I have reported shared expenses as a verbal agreement among homeowners to share the expenses as they arise. This could be true whether the form of ownership was condo or not. For example, I find that often in shared drives and shared wells.

Usually the lender insists on a formal agreement.

 

[Don Clark]

condominium ownership
A form of fee ownership of separate units or portions of multiunit buildings that provides for formal filing and recording of a divided interest in real property.

And that's what we have in Virginia. It is much more cost effective and a seller can achieve a higher return on their investment to convert a duplex, or a 4 unit property to a condo than to sell the property as a duplex or 4 unit property. Also, due to the very high cost of land in the city where i live, the 2 unit condo's are very attractive, especially near or on the ocean front. I have uploaded a photo of a 2 unit condo in the 2nd block from the ocean front.

 

[Webbed Feet]

Yes, I found 2 other '2 unit condominium projects' that, according to the MLS, do not have any HOA dues.

Ms. Schmidt,

I only read the Spud and Riick both hinting at the very serious problems unit owners of such properties can face if the building deteriorates. Such things as two unit condo projects are nothing more than a trick pulled to get around zoning laws that were stopping individual ownership of each unit any other way in most cases. However, it really leaves the unit owners exposed if one of them fails regarding upkeep and this ends up resulting in damage to both units. What do people do, paint half the building when it is time to paint? Only roof half when it both sides needs a new roof?

Tell your client you need to see a "Declaration of Condominium" of record. Then if you confirm condo form of ownership, no HOA, no fees, no reserves, no mutual insurance or written maintenance agreements, go over all of that in your report. Make sure you ONLY use comparable equally lacking all of the above. Just like condo projects with HOA's, when project maintenance goes to hell in a handbasket, it affects market values. When one owner has to sue the other owner over lack of maintenance and damage to both units due to it, only a fool would not consider that situation when making an offer to purchase into it.

Webbed.

 

[Mike Boyd]

What's the zoning? I'm in an R2 "duplex style" condo, each side individual ownership. Some houses in our hood are R2 true duplex, single ownership, depends on if the additional fees were paid to condo-map. Anyways, sounds like you have some good comps, just explain.

Who owns the land? Are you sure it's a true condo? Ask the title comapny how it is ensured for title purposes. A clerk in the planning department is not an authority.

Eva....drop the s from anyways. Not a word and one less keystroke.

 

[c w d]

For the 1,999th time ..."A condominium is a form of ownership, not an archetectural style". There are several hundred 2 unit condos in my market. We also have many 4,6, and 8 unit condos all without a condo fee, no association, nadda. Just because you have never seen one before, don't assume they do not exist. Now, i am talking about condo's without any condo fees, not aliens or UFO's.

Dude, cut down on the hooch. I was just making a personal statement and asking a question. You bashed the statement and didn't answer the question. Maybe we could try for the 2000th time?