July 2008 ASC Q&a- Wink Wink Comp Comp

[Fred]

They are smart enough to know the weaknesses and loopholes in the system and where to pull the strings.

I think those weakness and loopholes are called appraisers.:icon_lol:

 

[Webbed Feet]

P.S.

By the way, some may not like my thoughts about what the ASB should have said about web portals and conversion programs. However, in my mind, there was absolutely no reason the ASB could not have said that an appraiser's responsibility ended at the normal PDF output of that appraisers normal appraisal form software. It is common knowledge that all appraisers are pressured into using these portals and conversion programs by blatent donkey and carrot methods of (wink, wink, wink) suggesting that appraisers that DO cooperate in the use of such portals and conversion programs will get more work than those that don't. Give me a break, it's a no brainer pressure is being applied.

The ASB and other agencies could try supporting appraisers for a change and publish that as long as an appraiser "offers" to upload the appraiser's original PDF version from that appraiser's normal software.... the fact the client on the other end turned that offer down is THAT CLIENTS PROBLEM! .. If the client wants to circular file the PDF version the appraiser wants to send, and use some conversion program to tear it apart instead, the appraiser should be 100% off the hook. That original PDF file from that appraiser's appraisal software should be that appraisers work file report and allowed to be so. If the end client gets caught up in some federal lending violation over manipulating appraisers into using their pet conversion program or web portal... that should 100% be on the head of that Client / Lender. Not dumped back on each individual appraiser to attempt to determine what that portal or conversion program is, or is not, doing. It's rather simple, require by federal law all users of appraisal services for mortgage purposes must accept upload of BOTH the appraiser's original PDF version and that portal or conversion program version IF any portal or conversion software is being requested by the appraiser's client. The appraiser is ONLY responsible for the appraiser's original PDF version.

This dump it all on the appraisers has to stop.

Webbed.

P.S.S. At least I am on topic...

 

[Hamlet]

Ah, the heck with it. Turn it all over to the computers. That way they can be programmed exactly the way the "authorities" require. No need to worry about ethics or judgement. No need to worry about portals or voodoo software. No bad attitudes or concerns about the price of gas or Skippy. Just run a nice statistical analysis and get a number. That's all anyone needs anyhow.

Yes, computers can spit out numbers and they aren’t emotional or cranky and don’t get hungry or need to take a pee break.

They have an absence of ethics (unethical or otherwise), however they can be tweaked and are dependent on the information/garbage put into them, so that means they reflect the ethics of those that control them.

Computers cannot offer smell-a-vision, they are rooted to one spot and unless connected to a robot with a camera cannot view what we can view, and even that would be limited.

Really, USPAP is the rule book that governs appraisers. It has no authority over anyone else. As far as the donkeys, it is the supply and demand theory, if there is no one asking for the pre-determined value, there would be no need to supply it.

I agree with Webbed, stop wasting USPAP breath on what we already know, DUH!

 

[Fred]

Give me a break, it's a no brainer pressure is being applied.

Yeah, so. By my estimate, the first professional appraisers were probably the Roman tax collectors who did an ad valorem on travellers. I think "pressure" started from the first day even before the first "client." Do you think the ASB can wave a wand and make it all go away?

The ASB and other agencies could try supporting appraisers for a change

Sure, they could issue appraiser stamps.

and publish that as long as an appraiser "offers" to upload the appraiser's original PDF version from that appraiser's normal software.... the fact the client on the other end turned that offer down is THAT CLIENTS PROBLEM!

Isn't that already the status quo, whether an "agency" publishes it or not? Then the client moves on to someone else who solves their problem.

 

[George Hatch]

How can the ASB (or any of the states) endorse one commercial softare program over all others?

I am not prohibited from sending an appraisal in its native alamode file format - with signature - to another appraiser who also has an alamode setup that can read and print the file.

In fact, a few years back I seem to remember alamode encouraging appraisers to set their clients up with computers and printers so that they could interface with the appraisers via alamode, download alamode-formatted appraisal files w/signatures, and print them. No pdfs involved. This was prior to the rise of the pdf via e-mail delivery method that eventually won more market acceptance.

Now I don't say that what alamode was doing then was in any way wrong or unethical, but I'll bet $5 they had and still have the technical capability of cracking open one of those files while enroute if they really want to. The difference is, I'm not accusing them of actually doing it nor am I saying that native-file transmittal method was in any way improper.

Oh yeah, and I've never been concerned that alamode might datamine my appraisal reports in order to run the AVMs for sale in competitiion with me. But I've been assured the datamining issue is a moot point that has no bearing in this petition, right? Riiiiight.

Is anyone here ready to cast the same stones at alamode for doing the same or similar thing as FNC, albeit with a different file format? Or does alamode get a pass because everyone likes many or all of the things that Dave Biggers has done for us in the past?

What are you guys going to do if/when FNC or some other portal vendor comes out with their own appraisalware program and demands that in order to use their portal system (which is a prerequisite to dealing with the clients who use them) you'll have to build your reports using their software? Just wait until they run their appraisalware programs via internet access; all the software will be on their end and you'll have to log onto their website in order to write appraisal reports.

You won't be mounting claims about "true copies" then.

 

[Hamlet]

Yeah, so. By my estimate, the first professional appraisers were probably the Roman tax collectors who did an ad valorem on travellers. I think "pressure" started from the first day even before the first "client." Do you think the ASB can wave a wand and make it all go away?

Ceasar was the client...there is always as client or there wouldn't be any reason for providers.

I'm sure their pressure was greater than ours, at least we don't die on the cross IF we say no. Some will just die a slow death from starvation!


Sure, they could issue appraiser stamps.

Kewl, maybe they'll be collectors items one day!

Perhaps the powers that be over USPAP could try throwing their influence around Washington and put some pressure there instead of wasting its breath on clarifying comp checks ARE appraisals.

Isn't that already the status quo, whether an "agency" publishes it or not? Then the client moves on to someone else who solves their problem.

Solve their problem or give them what they want? Talking about residential lending.

My blue........

 

[Fred]

Ceasar was the client...

Pressure probably came from the intended users as well, perhaps a different forms of pressure.

 

[Hamlet]

Pressure probably came from the intended users as well, perhaps a different forms of pressure.

Yes you are right, Ceasar said, "Et tu, Brute?"

 

[Offshore]

Mike I must say that on ethics and substance you’re in the lead in this debate. In emotion and shrillness I’m afraid Steven and his groupies have an insurmountable lead.

 

[Ken B]

What do you expect from a mere Wells Fargo employee? It's not like he ever wrote an article on the history of appraisal theory or anything like that.