Vendor agreements with "hold harmless"

[Roscoeman]

Let's see, E/O says--don't sign it, we won't bail you out.
Your Attorney says--don't sign it, you'll pay for their attorney fees.
AppraisalPort says, "sign it, everybody does"
DWiley says, "Its the same as your software agreement"

You make the decision.

I vote for 1&2, how bout you?

 

[Bearslide]

Let's see, E/O says--don't sign it, we won't bail you out.
Your Attorney says--don't sign it, you'll pay for their attorney fees.
AppraisalPort says, "sign it, everybody does"
DWiley says, "Its the same as your software agreement"

You make the decision.

Oh dear, oh dear, what SHALL I do? Tick, tock, tick, tock. Hmmmmmmmm.

Nicely put, Elliott - and of course, my vote goes with 1 & 2.

 

[Bearslide]

https://www.appraisalport.com/misc/user_agreement_20080913.aspx

Links posted on the AP home page are removed after a short time. The announcement about the new user agreement has been up for quite a while now. I suspect it rotated off the home page due to its age. Other links have rotated off as well. For example, the link to the ENV printer/viewer is no longer on the home page either, but it is still up and running.

Ah, thank you, Mr. Wiley. We do so very much appreciate you acting as FNC/Appraisalpot's liason officer and spokesperson. We are, after all, according to Neil Olson, so technologically unsavvy that we need every bit of help we can get. :icon_mrgreen: And before anyone gets their tidy-whities in a knot, I am quite sincere. I refuse to log onto apot, so thanks for the updates!

And now I return you to our regular FNC/Appraisalpot bashing.

 

[AnonApprsr]

Someone give me a definition of "hold harmless." I haven't been exposed to such language so far. I haven't signed a contract for work for any of my clients. Help?

Well, no contracts other than the basic agreement to terms when you accept an order. The terms on the order itself that is. Never seen anything like "hold harmless", is that where it would appear?

 

[Bearslide]

Someone give me a definition of "hold harmless." I haven't been exposed to such language so far. I haven't signed a contract for work for any of my clients. Help?

That's easy - as it relates to FNC/Appraisalpot and any other such portal, any conversion program and any AMC.........."hold harmless = evil" or in laymans terms "kiss your assets goodbye".

 

[Bearslide]

Sorry, I'm late to the party -- the rain has set me back a week.

Oh c'mon, Joyce, catch up! Here, I'll help you out. Mr. Wiley is trying to convince us that the apot "hold harmless" is well...........harmless. Yo-ho..............

 

[Tom Barclay]

Someone give me a definition of "hold harmless." I haven't been exposed to such language so far. I haven't signed a contract for work for any of my clients. Help?

Well, no contracts other than the basic agreement to terms when you accept an order. The terms on the order itself that is. Never seen anything like "hold harmless", is that where it would appear?

"Hold harmless" means when you sign it you accept all the responsibility, even for deeds you did not do; and the other party is absolved of any responsibility, even when they do something wrong.

 

[Webbed Feet]

<..... snip......>

What am I holding them harmless of and what am I defending them from?

How about the things they already know.... that you don't.

Webbed.

 

[Webbed Feet]

To All

http://www.aepronet.org/ge/no29.html

http://www.photoattorney.com/2006/07/defend-hold-harmless-and.html

http://adamsdrafting.com/system/2006/10/21/hold-harmless-and-indemnify/

http://adamsdrafting.com/system/2007/04/08/yet-more-on-indemnify-and-hold-harmless/

I just think the outcome of Queen Villas Homeowners Association V. TCB Property Management bears close examination versus the language being used by a pass through entity that proceeds to do things out of our control.

Comparing software licenses to AP is apples to oranges. I am disappointed to see that being done. In the case of appraisal software there is an attempt to limit software company liablity going on regarding our use of their software. The difference? The difference is we get to look at the output of that software and have some opportunity to catch it failed to do the math correctly or transferred something where it should not have gone. In the case of "Ports" that we allow to convert our work and they then take control of all that has been converted, we never see again what is, or is not, being done to our work. Now completely out of our control, but yet we indemnify them? We hold them harmless?

Nay my brothers and sisters! It is they that should be indemnifying us and holding us harmless! For if they get sued why should we be held to protect them at our expense from the party suing them? If they damage us from their negligence why do we agree to not ask for compensation? For far too long now our trade humbles itself by forever asking who are we without their appraisal orders? Perhaps it is far past time we all instead ask who are they without appraisers that will accept their assignments?

Who are they?

Webbed.

 

[Bearslide]

To All

http://www.aepronet.org/ge/no29.html

http://www.photoattorney.com/2006/07/defend-hold-harmless-and.html

http://adamsdrafting.com/system/2006/10/21/hold-harmless-and-indemnify/

http://adamsdrafting.com/system/2007/04/08/yet-more-on-indemnify-and-hold-harmless/

I just think the outcome of Queen Villas Homeowners Association V. TCB Property Management bears close examination versus the language being used by a pass through entity that proceeds to do things out of our control.

Comparing software licenses to AP is apples to oranges. I am disappointed to see that being done. In the case of appraisal software there is an attempt to limit software company liablity going on regarding our use of their software. The difference? The difference is we get to look at the output of that software and have some opportunity to catch it failed to do the math correctly or transferred something where it should not have gone. In the case of "Ports" that we allow to convert our work and they then take control of all that has been converted, we never see again what is, or is not, being done to our work. Now completely out of our control, but yet we indemnify them? We hold them harmless?

Nay my brothers and sisters! It is they that should be indemnifying us and holding us harmless! For if they get sued why should we be held to protect them at our expense from the party suing them? If they damage us from their negligence why do we agree to not ask for compensation? For far too long now our trade humbles itself by forever asking who are we without their appraisal orders? Perhaps it is far past time we all instead ask who are they without appraisers that will accept their assignments?

Who are they?

Webbed.

HEAR, HEAR, Mr. Webbed. As always, well spoken. Anyone who has lingering doubts about the wisdom of accepting this, or any other, hold harmless agreement from any portal or AMC needs to re-read your words until they UNDERSTAND. And thank you for the links - most helpful.

I encourage those who think they MUST accept this onerous agreement to contact their clients. I doubt many of them understand what it is they have signed on for.