fee for a 1004D appraisal update

[PropertyEconomics]

Ditto! And plus the fact the 1004d requires so much patching up to get the final report into USPAP compliance that it's not worth the journey. It is easier just to use the same form used before all over again and create a new full shebang report.

Is there a new Fannie Form I dont know about????

 

[Webbed Feet]

Is there a new Fannie Form I dont know about????

Yes, I think it was designed by Obama Girl special for the inauguration. It costs at least three times more than any other form before it but doesn't deliver much beyond the same empty promises all the other forms delivered..

 

[PropertyEconomics]

Yes, I think it was designed by Obama Girl special for the inauguration. It costs at least three times more than any other form before it but doesn't deliver much beyond the same empty promises all the other forms delivered..

The FullSheBang 12009 .... alrighty then as my friend Mr. Rex would say. :laugh:

 

[valuequestor]

This could work.

The FullSheBang 12009 .... alrighty then as my friend Mr. Rex would say. :laugh:

I just added the FullSheBang 12009 to my web site.

When and how do you decide if a client is capable of understanding something like the 1004D "update". I have to think there are situations when your work file would need little additional data and research. Why do we always have to assume they are incapable of understanding that it requires the original report and that they are not seeing ALL of the data and analysis...just the results.
This is a real question......don't cut my head off.

 

[Webbed Feet]

Good question!

I just added the FullSheBang 12009 to my web site.

When <........... snip ...... >

When anyone tries to order an update asking for that form.

and how <............snip...........>

See "When" above. You quiz them while determining a SOW for them.

<.... snip.....> I have to think there are situations when your work file would need little additional data and research.

It is a new assignment. Your "work file" needs everything any other new assignment has to have.

<.....snip......> Why do we always have to assume they are incapable of understanding that it requires the original report and that they are not seeing ALL of the data and analysis...just the results.
This is a real question......don't cut my head off.

Well, for starters, they are NOT seeing "just the results" because the 1004d is preprinted to be a "Summary" appraisal report. One that doesn't remotely comply with USPAP for a Summary report mind you, but once you supplement it into compliance to meet a Summary standard explain to me how any report that does that would be "just the results?"

:new_scatter: .... closest I could find to a flyin head... :new_newbie:

 

[valuequestor]

Flying Heads

Right! pesky "Summary Report" printed on the form. Fannie, Fannie, Fannie... clean your house!

How about "Heads will bounce/roll":new_multi:

 

[Jim Onderisin]

The 1004D requires you to update your previous report. I've done a handful of these and charge $150. The update incorporates the previous appraisal by reference, so everything in the previous appraisal is part of the 1004D update. The form is usually not ordered if the appraisal is more than 4 months old, so the research is for additonal comparables which occurred during that time period. The comparables are analyzed to see if they support or refute the previous appraisal. The problem comes in if they refute the value. Then you have to let the client know that the value is likely lower.

 

[Webbed Feet]

The words matter and cause problems.

The 1004D requires you to update your previous report. I've done a handful of these and charge $150. The update incorporates the previous appraisal by reference, so everything in the previous appraisal is part of the 1004D update. The form is usually not ordered if the appraisal is more than 4 months old, so the research is for additonal comparables which occurred during that time period. The comparables are analyzed to see if they support or refute the previous appraisal. The problem comes in if they refute the value. Then you have to let the client know that the value is likely lower.

You are a great poster. I don't mean to offend, but too many recently (just two to five years) licensed or certified appraisers don't comprehend "updating" very well and certainly the public and mortgage side does not. That is why I think we have to be very careful when we express things about this. I appreciate what you meant. I'm just not sure others will comprehend it all like they should.

So I have to post this:

A) The 1004d does not require a prior real estate appraisal to be "Updated" as if some extension of the prior work is being done. The 1004d represents a brand new real estate appraisal assignment. There exists in the USPAP manual AO statements that expressly say an "Update" is not an extension of a prior real estate appraisal. It is a new assignment that must stand on it's own under USPAP. The prior opinion of value is a benchmark relative to the new one only.

B) No, everything in a prior incorporated report is not part of the "Update." For example, the SOW of the 1004d requires a new effective date. It is not a Retrospective analyses reusing the old prior effective date from out of the prior appraisal report. Therefore, clearly, the prior effective date in the other appraisal report is not "incorporated" by reference or attachment. And frankly, the prior signed certifications are not "Incorporated" either as USPAP would require that the "New Assignment" be completed with it's own new set of signed certifications that meet at least the USPAP required minimum ones.

For me, the above opinion of mine, makes it that a really good "Update" would be one that clearly spelled out just exactly what information from a prior report is actually being "Incorporated" and what exactly is not. Again, for example, a prior "Market Analysis" section in a prior report could be completely invalid at the time of the effective date of any "Update" due to market changes. Not clearing up that little matter could result in a misleading "New Assignment" completed on the 1004d form.

C) Problems are greater than just if the resulting value opinion in the "New Assignment" do not find a "At Least" solution to the prior opinion of value. The prior exposure time reflected by the market three months ago may have been 20 days. Now three months later, due to market changes, it could be 180 days. The 180 day exposure time could in fact result in a M.V. of equal to greater than the prior value opinion. But that does not mean the client should expect the new "Updated" M.V. to mean the old opinion of value can be reached in only 30 days of marketing in order to obtain a equal to or greater than result.

Bottom line, my opinion only, the 1004d is a piece of crap form and I suspect a great deal of misleading "New Assignments" are going out reported on it. Appraisers need to grasp "New Assignment" and that only the currently valid portions of a prior report can be "Incorporated" and all other prior report items that are no longer valid have to be declared "Not Incorporated" with the new correct information and analyses provided in the new assignment.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

A 1004d is a "new assignment."

not if an extension of the old one. i.e.- final inspection for instance.

The update incorporates the previous appraisal by reference, so everything in the previous appraisal is part of the 1004D update. The form is usually not ordered if the appraisal is more than 4 months old, so the research is for additonal comparables which occurred during that time period.

Jim' right. Webbed is wrong.

And not everything the lender want's "updated" is an update. The OP is referring to a final inspection....

 

[Webbed Feet]

What are other appraisers charging for an appraisal update on the 1004D?

I have never had to use this form except for final inspection on a new construction. I will need to travel about 45 miles away to take new pictures of the subject & then pull comps to determine if the market value has gone down since the original appraisal.

Just want to be fair to me & the borrower on this. Thanks.

Ahhhhhhh..... I know everyone else can read for themselves. But I thought I'd take a moment to point out the O.P. is discussing the need to determine a new market value opinion after pulling comps.

I appreciate the 1004d can also be used for a final inspection. However, at the moment, I have a slight disagreement as to what the thread is about, who is right and who is wrong.



P.S. Oh, and I wasn't trying to coin Mr. Onderisin as completely wrong. I understood and appreciated most of what he posted exactly as I said. And as I said, it was other people I was concerned about if we are not careful to understand that many people take the words in ways not intended.