Can you value as vacant.if its improved?

[DWiley]

Danny is wrong when he says that we rely to much on legal documents. I dont know what he meant by that since that is the only way property rights are expressed.

You put words in my mouth, then you say I was wrong for saying something I didn’t actually say. Nice.

I never said that we rely too much on such documents. I said that our experience with documents affects how we think about property rights. This thread clearly illustrates that.

Now, how about addressing something I did say:

I have a deed that proclaims to the public my fee simple ownership of a home. There is no document seperately stating my right to rent the property to someone else, but that right exists (even without such a document) and it can be appraised, even if I never rent the property.

Do my rights to rent the property to someone else exist without a lease or not?

 

[Carnivore]

You put words in my mouth, then you say I was wrong for saying something I didn’t actually say. Nice.

I never said that we rely too much on such documents. I said that our experience with documents affects how we think about property rights. This thread clearly illustrates that.

Now, how about addressing something I did say:



Do my rights to rent the property to someone else exist without a lease or not?

Danny,

Your asking me if you can convey a portion, part or all of your Fee Simple rights to someone else. The simple answer is yes.

If you wanted me to appraise your property I would ask if you wanted an appraisal of the Fee simple, or in the case of where you had a current lease I would ask do you want the property appraised as-is, a leashold, or hypothetically as-if a fee simple.

So initially you might tell me to appraise it Fee simple, but upon my acceptance I later discovered you had leased the property I would then come back and ask the above.

---------------------------

added:

Curious, I know its important, but why our we going all the way back to appraisal problem identification? Is it because its germaine to the whole thread.

 

[The Warrior Monk]

Do my rights to rent the property to someone else exist without a lease or not?

Yes (barring some type of legal prohibition against doing so).

However, it doesn't follow that a leasehold/leased fee estate exists if you hold fee simple rights. Only the potential to lease the property exists.

It should be noted that this is different than the OP. A vacant parcel with fee simple rights does not exist; only an improved one does. The improvements have to be bulldozed for the property owner to actually sell the fee simple rights in the land.

The property owner could sell/lease the rights the use to land if improved, but these are not fee simple rights. So, IMHO, a HC would be required to value the fee simple rights in the land.

 

[DWiley]

Nice try, but that is NOT what I asked. I asked if the right to lease existed absent a lease document. Do they?

 

[Carnivore]

Danny,

Aside from Asked and Answered.

I can only speak of North Carolina. Go back to my first answer and then add: All leases to be enforceable must be in writing and agreed to by all parties.

ap

 

[The Warrior Monk]

Danny,

I can only speak of North Carolina. Go back to my first answer and then add: All leases to be enforceable must be in writing and agreed to by all parties.

ap

I didn't get into this because each state is different. However, same is true in NY; better have any type of documentation related to real estate in writing. Leases typically are in writing...except maybe some short-term (month-to-month) residential ones. It is recommended that they even be recorded at the County Clerk's office, though in practice they rarely are.

 

[DWiley]

I can only speak of North Carolina. Go back to my first answer and then add: All leases to be enforceable must be in writing and agreed to by all parties.

Nice to know, but again, not what I asked. I asked if the right to rent the property to some one else exists, even if there is no lease. Of course it does.

It appears the answer is being dodged because the answer is not consistent with the notion that rights only exist if they are documented somewhere.

To be perfectly honest, I think the answer depends entirely on the exact circumstances. The Q&A provides an answer that would be appropriate in some circumstances and not in others. The real trick to a good Q&A is having the right Q, and the Q in this case lacks specificity.

This is an interesting academic discussion that has no meaning in the real world. Whether or not one has to use a HC is irrelevant. The only potential issue would be inappropriately using the term "Hypotheical Condition" and that trap can be avoided by simply not using the term in any circumstance - even when one is required.

 

[Pittsburgh Pete]

The question is not whether the lease must be in writing or not, but rather quite simply whether the right to lease the property exists!

The answer to that, of course, is a simple, unqualified "yes"!!

 

[Stone]

That isn't what he has been asking. He has been asking if he the right to lease it exists without a document. In other words, when there is no lease, does he have the right to lease it? Unless I'm completely misunderstanding, he isn't asking about a lease being enforceable without documentation.

The obvious answer is yes.

 

[DWiley]

I didn't get into this because each state is different. However, same is true in NY; better have any type of documentation related to real estate in writing.

Examining whether or not a documented lease exists is not the same as asking whether or not the right to lease exists.