MLS Comp Photos WTF!

[DMZwerg]

I agree that times are tough. But if you take a typical BS fee of $175 or whatever it is they pay you and I have seen fees as low as $150....divide that by say 4 hours of work its an hourly wage of 43.75.

4 hours???

• Pre-inspection research: 1-2 hours (including hitting MLS for subject, county website for subject, county GIS for aerial image & check all the different zonings, 2-3 MLS searches for comps, etc ... ok, maybe more like 3+hrs)
• Drive to subject: 30 min
• Inspection: 1-2 hours (less than one if a simple, but I never see a simple; sometimes over 2 for the complex McMansions; average 1-2 for full interior inspection & outside measurement of 2 story "comtemporary")
• Drive comps: 1-2+ hours (as they are NEVER all within 0.5 miles, and rarely all within 2 miles in the country; for complex McMansion on acreage driving the comps may take 8-12 hours)
• Drive home: 30 min

OK, I just hit that "4 hours" with my minimum times and haven't even gotten to entering subject data, sketch, 6-12 comps for analysis (because, well, point blank, semi-rural appraisers can rarely specialize in a 2 sq.mi. dense residential area so 75%+ of comps are "new" or "sold since last used"), verification of information, double-checking any REOs, the vacant land search, the rental comp search, the cost approach, sales approach analysis & completion, pictures, driving out to the courthouse to verify zoning (if you didn't handle same day as inspection), FEMA maps, etc, etc, etc, then finally hearing back from some of the realtors or HOA 2-4 days later ...

Not cutting any of those corners, right?

Take off your MLS costs, E/O, flood maps, gas, wear and tear on your vehicle, phone calls etc...its probably more in line with $25-30/hr. <snip>
With all due respect, my point is you might be best served at a regular 9-5 job with benefits and no liability. As long as your willing to work for their measly fees they will continue to pay them. <snip> In the meantime I am going to keep sticking to my guns and only accept full fees for full appraisals.

Exactly.

So, looking at the full fee compared to the "skippy fee" let us say some skippy will do a moderately difficult appraisal for $200 when full fee for same is $500. He will have to do 5 of those and cut lots of corners to make as much money as the person doing 2 for $500. Even cutting corners and doing them in 8 hours each (remember, moderate difficulty so 4 hrs is too fast) they will take 40 hours, about the same as the person not cutting corners and doing 2 in 40 hours. That is still only $25/hr base but the person doing 2@$500 may be able to work faster or work around their schedule a bit whereas "skippy" will be going for those 8 hrs TATs and thus become a slave to the grind. If the good appraiser can get them done in 16, 12, or even 10hrs per (only moderate difficulty) then to make the same money skippy would have to bring them to the same point as a super-efficient "cookie-cutter" to keep up.

Now look at expenses: each appraisal has a variable cost based in miles driven, etc, and 5 appraisals will tend to consume probably 2 times the variable costs (assuming 2 can be stacked occasionally), so if $20/appt is the variable cost then skippy is making less than non-skippy and often has to squeeze a 6th one in to make up the added expenses ...

Have fun y'all!

 

[Mike Kennedy]

LET'S RETURN TO OUR TOPIC. THANKS.
MLS Comp Photos WTF!

 

[Lobo Fan]

I can't believe this thread is still going. I thought we all decided that we should be using contemporary comp photos.

 

[DMZwerg]

I can't believe this thread is still going. I thought we all decided that we should be using contemporary comp photos.

Actually I thought the prevailing wisdom was "try to use contemporary comp photos" shot by the appraiser unless extenuating circumstances exist (continued human activity, major changes since date of sale, totally obscured by trees, etc) making the MLS photos are more applicable and then a brief text as to why MLS photos were used would be the best advice.

 

[Carnivore]

Reasons not to use MLS PIX (Fannie/Freddie Work)

1. Certifications say you must view comparables/neighborhood from the street. Why not take and use a current picture in concert with the MLS picture which is located within your workfile.

2. Many times the MLS picture is in the wrong season and UW/AMC's pester you raises suspicion about your report credibility, and worse continues distrust on your future work.

3. MLS pix are taken prior to closing. May not reflect site improvement as of closing date.

4. MLS pictures may be of wrong property.

5. MLS pictures may be from prior listings and prior sales and do not reflect site improvements on the 1st day of its current listing/sale.

6. MLS pictures are copyrighted. Do you know who actually took the picture?

Please add more reasons you may think of; to NOT use MLS Pictures.

 

[DMZwerg]

6. MLS pictures are copyrighted. Do you know who actually took the picture?

Please add more reasons you may think of; to NOT use MLS Pictures.

7. MLS pictures may deliberately hide faults such as deferred maintenance.

8. MLS pictures may be flipped or manipulated.

9. MLS pictures may not show recent damage.

10. MLS pictures may not indicate the purchaser bought the property for the site and treated the buildings as "tear downs" (not entirely uncommon for smll lakefront properties, etc).

 

[Doug Smith SRA]

Wise Guy

Actually I thought the prevailing wisdom was "try to use contemporary comp photos" shot by the appraiser unless extenuating circumstances exist (continued human activity, major changes since date of sale, totally obscured by trees, etc) making the MLS photos are more applicable and then a brief text as to why MLS photos were used would be the best advice.

The prevailing wisdom is, rather, inspect or use best efforts to inspect the property if the scope of work or certification indicates that a physical inspection is indicated for the property. The rest follows.

In this thread, I began to doubt applying the comment I make in most reviews that the photos were drawn from MLS without comment or attribution but think the weight is on making a comment if the circumstances of the inspection were such as described in the DMZwerg note above.My review comments are more conclusatory than accusatory.


The State Board in Montana revoked a certification not for using MLS photos but for stating that adjustments were based on a physical observation of the property when in fact the property was not viewed at all. Of course it did not help that the sales were pending/ not closed but the lack of inspection was piled on as another reason for dumping the appraiser. It is, then, an important point that some adjustments are based or partly based on an appraiser's observation from the street of the comparables.

Doug

 

[Vegan702]

How many of you wear sandals while putting the MLS photos into the reports?

 

[RQgirl]

But I am, I know this neighborhood well. I know the good streets that always sell better than the bad ones, I know what condition the homes are in and I have confidence in the value I came up with. Like I said this was mainly a frustration rant. I will take the photos that look exactly like the MLS ones, except the grass is not cut. Or hopefully I will get to take a photo of a house that was completely renovated after the sale, with the garage closed in and looks totally different than what was marketed and sold a couple months ago. A totally irrelevant photo of now stucco front home with larger GLA and no garage, but it will be current. The way some do it I guess is to take several photos in the field and to only use those comps. I could not sleep well at night if I did it that way so I guess I will be taking multiple trips or drive the whole neighborhood. All of this for 66% of last years fee and if the value is not right with them I spend hours defending myself against "value reconsiderations" requesting me to consider the newer high selling comps.


The reality is that now that the AMC's own us, over (80% of my work is for them) and fees will only drop over time. I love appraising, but I am already leaning towards rehab/flipping more houses.

Just because the house is now fixed up, doesn't mean you don't clearly explain what condition it was in at the time of the sale.. If the house was trashed - explain that and make an appropriate adjustment. Just because it's fixed up now means nothing. You're taking the photo to prove you were at that property as well as to see the house for yourself and make an informed decision.

If you don't like the new fees, and that is going to cause you to compromise your license - don't take the job. But don't only do 50% of the job... or we're never going to get respect back to our profession.

 

[VegasWayne]

How many of you wear sandals while putting the MLS photos into the reports?

I wear flip flops and have my dog with me when I put in MLS photos.