How to determine if property is a condo

[Mr Rex]

You do not understand condo ownership and maybe a CE course will help. An undivided 1/16 interest in the legal is one hell of a clue.

 

[Jo Ann Meyer Stratton]

I specialized in the Sun City area when I was appraising in Phoenix from 1986 to 1995. In Arizona, a condo complex has to have a horizantal property regime in the CC&Rs. Sun City is different than the rest of the world. There are very few real condos in Sun City. The type you are describing is probably one of those row houses of four to ten attached homes in a row. They own the structure, the land under the structure and sometimes a little bit of yard. They are not condos but PUDs since there is a mandatory homeowner's association fee for the landscaping, sometimes the exterior maintenance of the home. If there isn't a horizontal property regime clause in the CC&Rs then they are not condos. And the other interesting thing about Sun City, the single family detached homes are not PUDs. There is a annual recreational usage fee that is determined by the number of property owners on the deed and any additional occupants of the property. Many appraisers and underwriters get hung up on the PUD idea because of the mandatory fee--but it is not a homeowner's association fee so it is not a PUD. Del Webb very, very, very carefully set it up that way back in the 1950s and 1960s just so it would not be considered a PUD. That used to be my tag line when ever a discussion turned to Sun City--"Sun City IS NOT a PUD". By the way those quad situations are not condos either, but PUD because of their home owner's association fees. So you were right Renee and the lender is wrong.

Ask the title company about the CC&Rs, ask them if there is a horizontal property regime clause in the CC&Rs. If not, then you have a PUD--not a condo.

 

[reneeaz]

Go to the courthouse, ask the HO president, talk to the guy mowing the lawn, call a fellow appraiser that did an appraisal there recently, contact an agent/broker/Realtor that has done business there, knock on some doors, go to the township/boro office.

It's called legwork.

I know what legwork is. Your advise is worthless. So I'm suppose to tell the lender the lawn guy, president of HO, agents, brokers, etc say this is not a condo, right...I've done several of this type property in Sun City over the past years and never had this issue before. Seems everyone else knows these are not condos except this lender. Now, I ask once again for someone who might actually be able to help...what do I need the title company to supply me with to prove to me this is a condo?

 

[PropertyEconomics]

Renee .. lets do this ... WHAT do you think it is? Lets start there.

 

[TC]

Your advise is worthless.

Actually, it's adviCe, but why bother. This is the one thread that always honks me off, it's not that tough to figure out. Just a little due diligence.

 

[reneeaz]

I specialized in the Sun City area when I was appraising in Phoenix from 1986 to 1995. In Arizona, a condo complex has to have a horizantal property regime in the CC&Rs. Sun City is different than the rest of the world. There are very few real condos in Sun City. The type you are describing is probably one of those row houses of four to ten attached homes in a row. They own the structure, the land under the structure and sometimes a little bit of yard. They are not condos but PUDs since there is a mandatory homeowner's association fee for the landscaping, sometimes the exterior maintenance of the home. If there isn't a horizontal property regime clause in the CC&Rs then they are not condos. And the other interesting about Sun City, the single family detached homes are not PUDs. There is a annual recreational usage fee that is determined by the number of property owners on the deed and any additional occupants of the property. Many appraisers and underwriters get hung up on the PUD idea because of the mandatory fee--but it is not a homeowner's association fee so it is not a PUD. Del Webb very, very, very carefully set it up that way back in the 1950s and 1960s just so it would not be considered a PUD. That used to be my tag line when ever a discussion turned to Sun City--"Sun City IS NOT a PUD". By the way those quad situation were not condos either, but PUD because of their home owner's association fees. So you were right Renee and the lender is wrong.

Ask the title company about the CC&Rs, ask them if there is a horizontal property regime clause in the CC&Rs. If not, then you have a PUD--not a condo.

Thank you so very much Jo Ann for not being a jerk like some people on this forum. I actually avoid asking any questions because of people like them. Don't understand why they think they are all high and mighty and can treat people like dirt.

What you wrote is exactly how I have been treating properties in Sun City for years. I just needed confirmation from someone who actually knew what they were talking about. Thank you for that!!!!

This is actually one of the twin homes (Gemini). I'll ask the title company for a copy of the cc&rs. Thanks again for confirming what i thought all along.

No other replies are necessary from the jerks on this forum.

 

[Couch Potato]

How it that unquestionably a condo? Would if tract G is everything around each lot and does not include each lot? I thought if there are lot dimensions on the plat map, no horizontal property regime, no declaration on condominium, then it's not a condo. The plat shows each lot with dimensions of 50'x75' and labels the areas around the lots as common area tract G. With only this information available to me, what exactly makes this a condo? What should I ask the title company for to distinguish this is a condo and the owners do not own the land under their house?

What makes you think they do not "own" the land under their house if it is a condo? It is a classic description of a site condo. The condo units are the 16 lots with all of tract G being the whole. Have you thoroughly researched the development?

I'll ask the title company for a copy of the cc&rs. Thanks again for confirming what i thought all along.

No other replies are necessary from the jerks on this forum.

You will get more replies whether needed or not.

You were not planning to look at the CC&Rs?

 

[Mr Rex]

Mean appraisers suck. I wish I'd never met you, you selfish SOB. I was saving myself for marriage or a designation, and now I'm soiled.:new_all_coholic:

 

[Jo Ann Meyer Stratton]

A twin home in Sun City is definitely not a condo. I am assuming you are in the older Sun City and not one of the newer sections? Since I left Phoenix in 1995 I am not familiar with the new areas that have been developed since then. Good idea to get the CC&Rs directly from the title company. I had an advantage for one year, TRW bought a title company and they shared office space with the appraisal office. So each order in Sun City I could go next door, get a copy of the CC&Rs and added that to my folder of Sun City floor plans. My folder (which I had to leave behind and I am sure no longer exists) had all the floor plans, CC&RS, etc that existed in Sun City from the 1950s to 1995. The Sun City MLS use to refer people to me for info on Sun City because I had so much data and info about it. My first chief appraiser had been accumlating it for years before 1986 and then I kept adding to it. Every time I went to the sales office, I went picked up more floor plans and data. And by the way, Del Webb never set up any "site condos" in Sun City or Youngtown. He had some very knowledgable attorney's when he started his grand design

 

[reneeaz]

Mean appraisers suck. I wish I'd never met you, you selfish SOB. I was saving myself for marriage or a designation, and now I'm soiled.:new_all_coholic:

Oh so witty...