Follow up on the Solar discussion from an Installer

[airphoto]

Figure in the increased tax assessment based on the improvement to the asset and the property tax system will rob all the projected savings, yearly, into the far distant future ..

 

[Metamorphic]

I did an analysis of a neighborhood I know of where you've got a bunch of very similar properties, in the same tract, some with solar and some without. When they first sold (nearly 10 years ago) there was a distinct financial preference for the solar homes. As the economy got tight the price differential between solar and no-solar shrunk to such a small amount that it is lost in the financial background "noise" of REO vs. Resale, and varying condition.

My conclusion is that when people are feeling flush, they're willing to pay for solar, but when they are unsure of their job situation, or if the value of the property is going to go up or down, they're much less likely to spring for an extra like solar.

 

[CANative]

Two of my cousins were really into this business (sales and installation) for years (in the Sacramento area) and the OP might even know them (Boedecker). It hasn't worked out for them.

 

[Restrain]

Example of how technology can be expensive, but not return value. Back in the late 90's a home was featured on TV here that had been completely wired for IT. Controlled everything. Cost was $50K and the homeowner was a so-happy super-Geek. I can do the whole house for less than a few hundred with off-the-shelf components today.

The problem with solar is the technology. The basic technology hasn't changed significantly. We need a more efficient and cheaper photovalic cell system to make the solar panels truly acceptable in the market.

As an example, I bought solar lights for the sidewalk. There's plenty of light, from my POV, along the sidewalk, but not enough to charge the lights. Even in the back yard, when fully charged, the light output is puny. At this point, these are just a gimick and not effective lighting instruments.

There are rumblings that changes in technology are in the mix, but I'm still waiting.

 

[Randolph Kinney]

Green baloney at its finest. Drive the cost of carbon fuel and power generation up to extreme levels so that green energy can compete.

California is implementing AB 32, the Global Warming Solutions Act. The CARB (California Air Resources Board) is chartered with its implementation to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from all sources with regulations and market mechanisms to reduce California's greenhouse gas emissions to 1990 levels by 2020, representing a 25% reduction statewide, with mandatory caps beginning in 2012.

Lets sell solar electric to the public with the claim that it increases the resell value of your home and it pays you while you wait. Oh, its mandated goal is to reduce CO2 emissions. Whether or not it makes financial sense is not the goal.

 

[Spartacus]

Provide those "studies" including specific properties with and without solar to the appraiser and he'll tell you if theres a difference in market value or not.

What about properties with 'purified' water even in the toilet? should those sell for more than those without purified water?

This study shows that Homes with solar sold 20% faster and at 17% more than comparable homes without solar in California.

http://cleantechnica.com/2010/10/23/solar-homes-sold-20-faster-and-for-17-more-nrel-study-finds/

A purified water system does not really compare because it provides no payback to the consumer. It may be something some people want, but solar can put money back in your pocket right away.

 

[CANative]

This study shows that Homes with solar sold 20% faster and at 17% more than comparable homes without solar in California.

http://cleantechnica.com/2010/10/23/solar-homes-sold-20-faster-and-for-17-more-nrel-study-finds/

A purified water system does not really compare because it provides no payback to the consumer. It may be something some people want, but solar can put money back in your pocket right away.

:new_popcornsmiley:

 

[Spartacus]

Simply; They look ugly.

Yup, some people think so.

On the other hand, many do not ... especially with the new panels on the market. Most of us are likely to see the ugly panels that are blue with silver lines running through them and a bulky racking system protruding off of each end. That does not have to be the case today. Sharp makes pure black panels and even triangular panels so the system can follow the lines of the roof. The racking systems are hidden now. Some even have only posts and the panels are connected together so there are no racks necessary. Many people who found the old panels unsightly found that these new panels really are attractive.

When the panels are on the back of the house (which can not always be done) the "ugly" factor is significantly reduced.

 

[Spartacus]

So you're saying your figures are accurate for all different systems, panels, inverters, installation providers and areas of the country?

Sorry, but I have a local solar company giving me entirely different reliability and performance numbers and nowhere near as optimistic as yours.

My figures are completely accurate. Vermont has less light than Cali so your local provider may have to figure in different costs due to more panels on the roof but the guarantees are the same through out the country.

Like any product, each manufacturer can sell their product at whatever price they want so I can't say my numbers are accurate for all systems, Panels, Inverters, Installation providers. Shipping costs can also vary and cause fluctuation in prices around the country. But I can tell you that my prices are accurate for my products and are available to everyone here in Cali.

 

[Spartacus]

Spartacus,

There may also be some obsolescence issues inherent as the technology is still evolving and advancing and the typical buyer for this system wants something cutting edge and is not concerned in buying the 5 year old system. I will also tell you that if it were really and truly beneficial and that the total upfront costs were greatly outweighed by the potential savings, everyone would have one.

As many people have noticed, the solar market has the perception that things have not changed in the last 30 years for solar ... so it is not like a stereo or TV. People don't expect to need the latest and greatest in Solar because they don't think it has or will change much.

The biggest reason not everyone has solar is because there is a HUGE mis-perception on how it works and how it can save. My neighbor thought they had be replaced every 5 to 10 years and that they could never last 25 years. Even here with Y'all who are experts in housing and deal with it daily, some thought wind would blow it off the roof, others that hail would hurt it. People don't understand it and that is the biggest roadblock. The thing is .... Solar is not just for hippies anymore.

There is an up-front cost issue, but when it is incorporated in the loan for the house that is negated. There are also 0 down loans that are available and other loan programs. In this economy it is difficult to get credit but the programs are there.