Continued Tax Breaks for the Rich?

[JSmith43]

I know very little about macro economics, but the trillions spent to incur the national debt did not just disappear into thin air...evidently it just trickles up. If it ain't broke, why fix it.

Most of it was spent on social programs, transfers of wealth from the creators of wealth to those that did not create enough wealth for various reasons. Now the holders of our national debt (citizens of the USA mostly, but quite a bit was invested by foreign entities that believed in the credit worthiness of the USA) are about ready to stop buying our securities that finance our socialized bubble economy.

The trust will break in what seems like a heartbeat. For all we know, the Governor of WI is holding back economic armageddon that will follow a mass exodus of investors in our government paper. Investors closely watch such struggles play out, for they tend to reveal the true intentions and ability of the country to live within its means.

It might be a good idea to pick up an economics book not written by Karl Marx, or Paul Krugman, for that matter.

 

[Offshore]

When I got into the real estate business and later the appraisal business, the vast majority of my peers leaned to the right and opposed a government that meddled constantly and taxed excessively. Lately in this forum there has been a rash of posts and threads that practically advocate socialism on many fronts. When did this change occur? Was it during the refi boom when the flood gate was opened with the expanding fee shops?

 

[The Warrior Monk]

Please don't refer to me as a "comrade" because I find that highly offensive. You probably never even served in the military. I find it amazing what cowards will say on a forum.

I would suggest the wealthy invest in THE CITIZENS of this country. If they want to move their factories overseas and put Americans out of work, all in the name of maximum shareholder profits and CEO bonuses, then they can just leave themselves.

The private sector has no obligation to minimize profits. First, the wealthy, and the companies they own, would invest here if it were profitable to do so. The government has the power to make that possible to very quickly, but choose not to do so. The wealthy make a nice scapegoat, but it completely misses the issues. Second, by companies maximizing profits, it helps everyone that invests in stocks. That's a good thing, considering the extremely adverse effect government policies are having on interest rates, and those whose retirements accounts depend on those interest rates being higher.

 

[Calvin the Airedale]

Please don't refer to me as a "comrade" because I find that highly offensive. You probably never even served in the military. I find it amazing what cowards will say on a forum.

I would suggest the wealthy invest in THE CITIZENS of this country. If they want to move their factories overseas and put Americans out of work, all in the name of maximum shareholder profits and CEO bonuses, then they can just leave themselves. Heard there are some empty villas in Mexico or Somalia that might make a nice place to raise a family. Don't worry, they will probably be safe...after all, they have enough money to hire their own army for protection.

I know very little about macro economics, but the trillions spent to incur the national debt did not just disappear into thin air...evidently it just trickles up. If it ain't broke, why fix it.

You're right, I've never been in the service.

But I did do a lot of drugs when I was young and was very left leaning. My first presidential vote was cast for George McGovern. So when I use the term "comrade" it is in the context of the "commissariat" that might result from the type of economic system to which your post seems inclined.

I may or may not be a coward. I'm pretty sure if we had this discussion at a AI dinner meeting I'd have called BS on you nonetheless. (But maybe not if you're much bigger, or younger, or healthier looking with more hair; or unless maybe you were confined to a wheel chair out of not wanting to appear cruel to a person confined to a wheel chair.)

I do not find it necessary to impoverish my fellow citizens at rates of taxation much different than what I suffer for the purpose of redistributing wealth, especially when the system of commerce in which we live provides such abundant opportunities for those of all stations.

The wealthy, and everyone else, are free to invest in whatever they believe are in their own best interests.

It continues to amaze me how some of those engaged in a profession that is a sub-set of economics can have such a paltry grasp of the principles and theories regarding the creation and maintenance of wealth.

 

[Randolph Kinney]

Strange how people react to no jobs: Whose job is it to create jobs?

Some great economists have insisted it is the government's job to create jobs by spending.

If spending created jobs, after $ trillions of spending, don't you think we would have all the people who wanted a job, employed?

 

[residentialguy]

I'd like to see us enact the Fair tax model (consumption tax) or a flat tax. Let's see who complains when we all pay our fair share.

 

[Mark K]

It is pathetic how "entitled" this nation has become. So many people feel entitled to the fruits of others labor that democracy is truly in danger in this country. When the parasites outnumber the hosts (we're getting close) where will the parasites go for their free lunch.

The US has spent TRILLIONS of $$ from the working class on the "war on poverty". How much more are we supposed to dump down this rathole failure of an experiment?

The politics and system have gone so liberal that JFK would probably accuse Bush II of being a socialist or communist.

"From each according to his ability to each according to his need.." Commrade Karl Marx.

If someone doesn't like being accused of being a communist they probably shouldn't espouse communistic ideas.

 

[Vetteman]

It is pathetic how "entitled" this nation has become. So many people feel entitled to the fruits of others labor that democracy is truly in danger in this country. When the parasites outnumber the hosts (we're getting close) where will the parasites go for their free lunch.

The US has spent TRILLIONS of $$ from the working class on the "war on poverty". How much more are we supposed to dump down this rathole failure of an experiment?

The politics and system have gone so liberal that JFK would probably accuse Bush II of being a socialist or communist.

"From each according to his ability to each according to his need.." Commrade Karl Marx.

If someone doesn't like being accused of being a communist they probably shouldn't espouse communistic ideas.

I certainly do not espouse communistic ideas and never brought up the subject of entitlements. What do entitlements have to do with the explosion of wealth at the top? I am a firm believer that people ought to be allowed to be just as miserable as they want to be. Hey, I voted for McCain and always vote for whichever candidate, regardless of party affiliation, will likely do the best for the country as a whole. I don't listen to Fox News, Rush Limbaugh or any other foaming at the mouth radical conservative nut-job because I find their vitriole disgusting. I posted this thread because I find it astonishing how much more wealthy so many Americans are becoming in the midst of such an economic downturn.

 

[Mark K]

Apparently some of us are confused by the tone of your posts.

We are hearing "communistic tendancies" when, in reality, you're saying "class envy/jealousy" and are merely suggesting wealth redistribution from the inherently evil and undeserving upper class.

There are those that argue that capitalism cannot survive in a democracy because sooner or later, the ranks of those at the bottom (the takers) will outnumber the ranks of those from whom it is being taken. I think the last presidential election shows that we are near or at that tipping point.

 

[Calvin the Airedale]

Let's review shall we:

Check this link out.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelo...but-unequal-charts-show-growing-rich-poor-gap

So much for Reagonomics and the trickle down theory.

And what are all these rich patriotic Americans doing with their rapidly increasing wealth? Certainly nothing to help their fellow Americans.

Tell me, in the economic system in which we live, whose job is it to see that one is happy, educated, employed, fed, housed and clothed? The rich? The government? Who?

Good diversionary tactic...blame this whole economic mess on handouts to the little guy. Whatever the rich are doing to become even more rich seems to be working quite well. Has nothing to do with entitlements and everything to do with greed and political corruption. Don't see them creating jobs either with all their new-found wealth....must just be hoarding it away somewhere. How patriotic. The rich and the politicians do not make this country great...it is the honest, hard-working people who are struggling to earn a living, pay their taxes and raise their children. During the Viet Nam war, politicians and the rich did not send their children to fight. Most of the wounded and killed probably grew up receiving entitlements. Their families couldn't afford to send their sons to college in order to avoid the draft.

So the rich, by virtue of their wealth, must be greedy and corrupt! And it's their mission in life to create jobs otherwise they're just hoarding. The next obvious step in your logic is that if they are not sufficiently responsible with their wealth then it should be taken away and given to someone who will be more responsible. Like the government?

Please don't refer to me as a "comrade" because I find that highly offensive. You probably never even served in the military. I find it amazing what cowards will say on a forum.

I would suggest the wealthy invest in THE CITIZENS of this country. If they want to move their factories overseas and put Americans out of work, all in the name of maximum shareholder profits and CEO bonuses, then they can just leave themselves. Heard there are some empty villas in Mexico or Somalia that might make a nice place to raise a family. Don't worry, they will probably be safe...after all, they have enough money to hire their own army for protection.

I know very little about macro economics, but the trillions spent to incur the national debt did not just disappear into thin air...evidently it just trickles up. If it ain't broke, why fix it.

America, love it my way or leave it? So one's economic choices must comport with your desired outcomes or there is no place for them in this country. Start down that road and the last one out can turn out the lights!

I certainly do not espouse communistic ideas and never brought up the subject of entitlements. What do entitlements have to do with the explosion of wealth at the top? I am a firm believer that people ought to be allowed to be just as miserable as they want to be. Hey, I voted for McCain and always vote for whichever candidate, regardless of party affiliation, will likely do the best for the country as a whole. I don't listen to Fox News, Rush Limbaugh or any other foaming at the mouth radical conservative nut-job because I find their vitriol disgusting. I posted this thread because I find it astonishing how much more wealthy so many Americans are becoming in the midst of such an economic downturn.

One of the key features of a socialism is a planned economy. The government, in its wisdom and for the good of all, orders the resources and talents of its citizens to achieve a desired result.

The vitriol you attribute to Fox News is disgusting but your portrayal of the rich is what, a breath of fresh air?