AQB Update On Proposed Changes To Appraiser Qualifications

[timd354]

We have appraisers participating *in this thread* who didn't have a college education when they started appraising but whose competency and professionalism past or present has never been questioned. That everyone here can acknowledge that fact in one breath and then turn around and say that it was a mistake to let them in is actually very annoying to me. As in, unacceptable.

We don't necessarily need to completely scrap all post secondary educational requirements but it seems downright ignorant to object to the idea of alternate pathways *such as* the 2008 "specific courses" requirements. If you're worried that someone doesn't know how to write then address it directly with a writing course requirement; and then TEST for that in the license testing or work sample reviews. Saying that the only way we can be sure that all applicants will know how to write is if they have a liberal arts degree that has no technical bearing on what we do everyday is just stupid. And vain.

I have nothing against anyone who came into the profession without a college degree and fully acknowledge that some of those people are fine appraisers. However, I do think that one of the biggest issues I see with some appraisers is a lack of basic writing ability and a lack of critical thinking skills. I will not try to pretend that the college degree requirement will fix all of those issues, but I do think it is likely that a person with a college degree is more likely to have acceptable writing skills and an increased ability to critically think than someone without a college degree, but of course there are always exceptions. I also think that the college degree requirement does benefit the profession by elevating the public's perception of the professional status of appraisers.

 

[J Grant]

We have appraisers participating *in this thread* who didn't have a college education when they started appraising but whose competency and professionalism past or present has never been questioned. That everyone here can acknowledge that fact in one breath and then turn around and say that it was a mistake to let them in is actually very annoying to me. As in, unacceptable.

Yes, you have a point, yet you fail to admit the reverse- the ,many who didn't have a college education when they started appraising but whose incompetency and lack of professionalism past or present has dragged the field down.

. Why did appraisal alone of all professions need regulatory intervention separating appraisers from direct order on res lender side? Why was it so vulnerable to the low fee exploitation of AMC's after the HVCC? While no studies are done, or at least non made public, to which education level appraisers did what, the fact that fields where a degree is an entry barrier, while they have a share of rogues and crooks they are an isolated few and the professions self maintain without outside intervention.

I don't think its' a matter of that segment of lousy appraisers non degree who went down the wrong path lack ethics, however many of them lacked the confidence and background a degree imparts to keep them from crossing the line. The problems n appraising are partially about dealing with client pressure or conflicting demands of appraisal and business interests.

There may be college level appraisers also who went down the wrong path but if I had to bet money, I'd bet a lower percentage of them did. And a good number of the more competent, quality minded non college on res side have been obtaining degrees or moving to commercial license, negating the reason for your appeal.

 

[J Grant]

You're making an economic argument in defense of our personal economic interests. I'm as selfish as the next person, but I don't think that the use of the State to protect me from competition on the fact-free basis is a virtuous argument.

Like it or not, economics plays a strong part in the quality of people who will enter and stay in a field, I don't get why it has to be isolated out from the other aspects regarding benefits of a higher education as an entry requirement to keep the profession healthy and growing.

 

[J Grant]

You're making an economic argument in defense of our personal economic interests. I'm as selfish as the next person, but I don't think that the use of the State to protect me from competition on the fact-free basis is a virtuous argument.

The state? Requiring a degree is now blamed on the state?

If you are intent of forgoing state protection from competition, then drop your state appraisal license and compete against all the RE agents and other non licensed people who offer to do evaluations.

 

[J Grant]

You know who else could analyze the performance of college vs non-college appraisers over time? The Appraisal Institute. They have had "dues payers" who did and didn't have college, and they know who they've disciplined in the past and for what. Given the overlap in the exact QE courses those people have taken that's another variable that is accounted for at the outset.

The AI could compile that *rates* of complaints for their SFR appraisers by education level and then we'd be able to see what correlation - if any - there was between the haves vs the have-nots.

While we are waiting for this study that might never take place, please don't scrap the college degree requirement because it will be very hard to restore.

It is very easy to lower a requirement, and very difficult to raise it. The fact that AMC's lobbied to drop the education and lower training /inspection requirements speaks for the interests and motives behind it .

 

[The Warrior Monk]

You're making an economic argument in defense of our personal economic interests.

I completely understand your point on this matter. I do note the economic benefits, but I'm not arguing that the degree requirement should be in place for that reason.

However, I assume that the degree is in place in part due to a backlash against the lax education requirements, and am more than happy to see the resultant expected effects.

 

[Eli]

I completely understand your point on this matter. I do note the economic benefits, but I'm not arguing that the degree requirement should be in place for that reason.

However, I assume that the degree is in place in part due to a backlash against the lax education requirements, and am more than happy to see the resultant expected effects.

Me too and not from a personal interest like GH suggests but more from a public trust stand point and a competitive stand point with other occupations or professions.

I see it putting the profession on a different level from fast food servers.

Ha ha! Little irony there ! Lol

Is it oligopoly or oligopsony? Lol. Who is who?

I should have worked for big bird on Sesame Street! Lol

I see at putting it on the level of law enforcement which GH did. GH, do you realize what a sheriff deputy makes in total compensation within 3 years?

What about an accountant? Or Nurse? Or other occupations on degree vs non degree?

 

[TRESinc]

Why did appraisal alone of all professions need regulatory intervention separating appraisers from direct order on res lender side? Why was it so vulnerable to the low fee exploitation of AMC's after the HVCC? While no studies are done, or at least non made public, to which education level appraisers did what, the fact that fields where a degree is an entry barrier, while they have a share of rogues and crooks they are an isolated few and the professions self maintain without outside intervention.

wrong. appraisers as a whole are individuals, and it's much easier to blame a group of people who can't come together to defend themselves. appraisers were blamed for building the housing bubble by "over-appraising" properties. forget the greedy borrowers who took more than they could repay; forget the greed MBs and bankers who did as many loans as they could to make more profit; forget the government telling the mortgage industry to relax standards because everyone should own a house; forget the no doc and stated income loans that were pushed through; forget the $8,000 first time home buyer program that was scammed by anyone and everyone that could (including people in prison who repeatedly forged documents to get 10s of thousands of dollars; forget the people who were first time home buyers, got the $8,000 and blew it on big screen tvs and cars because they were not educated in the ways of being a home owner and the costs associated with it.

then we were blamed for the lack of recovery after the crash for "under-appraising". you can't have it both ways. we were the easiest target to blame for the problems, thus we were the easiest target to aim at for new regulations.

we were not solely to blame for the housing crash but we were the easiest group to point a finger at.

 

[Eli]

I go back to the previous poster's son. He undoubtedly is intelligent and went the extra mile. He wanted to be an appraiser and went the extra mile.

Ok, GH and I agree that there were some slum mentors that helped create fast food appraisers. There were not a ton of them but enough to hurt the profession.

I'm sure accountants went through the same delimma and doctors and lawyers and teachers, etc.

 

[Mr Rex]

I have nothing against anyone who came into the profession without a college degree and fully acknowledge that some of those people are fine appraisers. However, I do think that one of the biggest issues I see with some appraisers is a lack of basic writing ability and a lack of critical thinking skills. I will not try to pretend that the college degree requirement will fix all of those issues, but I do think it is likely that a person with a college degree is more likely to have acceptable writing skills and an increased ability to critically think than someone without a college degree, but of course there are always exceptions. I also think that the college degree requirement does benefit the profession by elevating the public's perception of the professional status of appraisers.

My freshman English professor at a very large public university regularly mis-used the verb to be. "I weren't..." was hilarious to me and still would be if she wasn't later tenured...after she finished her Doctorate. A PhD in English that can't conjugate the verb to be teaching others. Gotta get me one of them thar degrees.