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Where Do You Think "geographic Competency" Begins And Ends?

I am capable of *competently* completing an appraisal assignment on a "typical" SFR even if

  • I've worked in the community before but have never worked in this particular neighborhood

    Votes: 30 52.6%
  • If I've worked in this County before but have never worked in this community

    Votes: 29 50.9%
  • If I've worked in this region before but never in this County

    Votes: 21 36.8%
  • If I've worked in this state before but never in this region

    Votes: 12 21.1%
  • I am capable of figuring out a typical SFR property almost regardless of where it is.

    Votes: 35 61.4%

  • Total voters
    57
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And seeing as how these "products" have been around for a "long time", how do you call appraisers the knee jerkers??? Most appraisers I talk to decided long ago this wasn't something they wanted to do.
It really does not matter one bit in the overall scheme of things if some appraisers do not want to do these types of so-called alternative valuations. The only thing that actually matter is how loans with these so-called alternative valuations perform versus loans with so-called traditional appraisals. If these loans perform similarly as loans with so-called traditional appraisals, then the expansion of the use of so-called alternative valuations by lenders will grow exponentially. If these loans perform worse, then the use of so-called alternative valuations by lenders will remain limited.

For all of your posturing and teeth grinding, loan performance data will ultimately determine how much of the mortgage lending valuation business these types of products eventually capture. Loan performance data is something that can be objectively measured using widely understood and objective metrics and that data will tell a coldly objective story that does not care one bit about your personal feelings...the data will show what they will show and lenders and secondary market participants will make their decisions regarding what valuation products to use based on that data and what is best for them, giving exactly zero consideration to your feelings on the matter or what is best for appraisers' income.

Sorry, but that is just the objective reality of the situation
 
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Everything we do is subject to assumptions and limitations. Some just have more than others. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just being dumb. Whatever the additional limitations are involved with these variants, I'm sure they'll have some effects on the results and will add some risks.

As long as we disclose the truth of what we are and aren't doing to the users and they're making informed decisions about the additional risks they're assuming then that decision is on them, same as any other decision to use any other valuation product. TILA disclosures included.
 
It really does not matter one bit in the overall scheme of things if some appraisers do not want to do these types of so-called alternative valuations. The only thing that actually matter is how loans with these so-called alternative valuations perform versus loans with so-called traditional appraisals. If these loans perform similarly as loans with so-called traditional appraisals, then the expansion of the use of so-called alternative valuations by lenders will grow exponentially. If these loans perform worse, then the use of so-called alternative valuations by lenders will remain limited.

For all of your posturing and teeth grinding, loan performance data will ultimately determine how much of the mortgage lending valuation business these types of products eventually capture. Loan performance data is something that can be objectively measured using widely understood and objective metrics and that data will tell a coldly objective story that does not care one bit about your personal feelings...the data will show what they will show and lenders and secondary market participants will make their decisions regarding what valuation products to use based on that data and what is best for them, giving exactly zero consideration to your feelings on the matter or what is best for appraisers' income.

Sorry, but that is just the objective reality of the situation


Are you underwriting these things? Lol

Can you send me your copy of your Insurance declaration page? PM me with it. I’ll keep it confidential. (Not). Lol

Look for new truth in lending disclosures soon.
 
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No, I'm saying what the client and users experience with the appraiser gets around and contributes significantly to our profession's credibility with the public. The term "Public Trust" as used in USPAP doesn't refer to our economy or the overall well being of society (such as "protecting the equity position in RE"), but rather the trusting relationship our profession aspires to have with society.

When a lawyer or a broker or a lender says they can send an assignment out to 50 appraisers and get 50 different answers the promulgation of that sentiment can impact the public's trust in our profession. If my client thinks I'm an idiot or a liar that undermines the interests of our entire profession a little, particularly if they have a good reason to think that because my conduct is subpar.

You realize that the primary thing you sell is not URARs with your name at the bottom, right? There's nothing special about you having an opinion of value - everyone in the transaction has one, and some of them are even well-informed. The primary attribute that makes your opinion marketable is the trust that the users have in your impartiality (in particular) and your overall competence (in general). Were this not the case these users could just take the broker's word for it.

This is not something I'm making up - it's a fundamental concept in any discussion of where our profession came from, why we exist, and why we have these different benchmarks for these various elements of what we do. Appraisal standards were not created for the purpose of interfering in your business - they exist primarily to support your legitimate interests by identifying what the level playing field between you and your competitors is supposed to look like as well as what the playing field between you and your users is supposed to look like.

That the IRL experience varies doesn't mean the standards are arbitrary or meaningless any more than does the existence of crime mean that the laws in our criminal codes that are being violated by the bad actors are meaningless.


What if your client should be bankrupt and in jail?

Your getting on my nerves again. I still like you though. Your a legend.

Your preaching intended use/user is good in my book for reporting but it is off for development due to all the different risks that appraisers limit.
 
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Idk GH.

Intended use/user is off in my book.

If my intended user should be in jail, and bankrupt, it’s off.

It don’t rhyme with the purpose of USPAP.
 
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So right now we have a down turn in business. Is this an opportunity for you to improve; your knowledge, methods, procedures, etc. The answer is yes. What else could you do during this slow time? If your thinking go out and expand your client base. Well the answer is your too late. Your standing in the same soup line as many others. Personally I have strongly resisted refi work, FHA work, and AMC work. That's does not mean I don't do any of that, but I don't if I don't have too. Right now I may do some of that work. I am going to still be choosey about it. If the only benefit I receive is money then I don't want it. Its not enough, I need the market knowledge(staying current in the market segment more than the money). So to relieve some of angst that some of you are feeling/experiencing now. this business will turn back around simply because we are a capitalist society and people like to spend money. Refi's wont stop! This is a temporary lull. Pretty soon people will go out and buy a new car, renovate a bathroom, go to Disney land/world. We sold houses at 14% interest rates. There is a huge market of people wanting to buy a house. We have a shortage of housing in Charlotte MSA. Developers are already starting new home s/d. The winter here was exceptionally cold one and it stifles activity of all kinds. Political environment is toxic.

So maybe George Hatches started this thread on competency was really an attempt to get members to open their eyes a little. Attempts to get it back on track have failed. So I have nothing else to offer. Maybe George will come up with another thread to create some useful discussion that wont degrade into a mud slinging contest.

One last thought; Get a new boogey man. The GSE's are not your enemy. Frankly they have done more to standardize/stabilize the appraisal methodology industry than USPAP. I have personal contact with GSE's employees. Frankly I was very impressed and was motivated to work harder and provide more detail in my reports.
 
For all of your posturing and teeth grinding, loan performance data will ultimately determine how much of the mortgage lending valuation business these types of products eventually capture. Loan performance data is something that can be objectively measured using widely understood and objective metrics and that data will tell a coldly objective story that does not care one bit about your personal feelings...the data will show what they will show and lenders and secondary market participants will make their decisions regarding what valuation products to use based on that data and what is best for them, giving exactly zero consideration to your feelings on the matter or what is best for appraisers' income.

Sorry, but that is just the objective reality of the situation

:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Sure,

That's why they were so fast to disclose how many foreclosures were valued by appraisers or AVMs, when the loans went belly up.

:rof::rof::rof:

No teeth grinding here. I just watch the data, and see the patterns.

:rof::rof::rof:

And what new "tech" that appraisers have to acquire, is there in these valuations? Appraisers figured out how to send runners out to do the inspections and take the pictures eons ago.

Oh and look, no appraiser regulations were loosened to accommodate such 'tech".

Actually appraiser regulations were tightened, requiring much more.

:rof::rof:

But really, when trying to sway the lemmings, no enforcer is needed, the psychology of swaying the lemmings needs to be updated to truth, justice and the American Way!

Negative reinforcement went out the windows in the '90s Tim.

:rof::rof::rof:
 
Carnivore,

Want something different to do?

Valuation investigator.

No separation between the lenders and these valuations anymore,

You seeing those loan advertisements yet, where borrowers can get a "discount" on a mortgage if they agree to refinance in less than 5 years? Sweet! No appraisal will be needed on that property forever.
Lenders will tell people what their property is "worth" and charge them lots of fees to do it.
No stinking appraiser is going to stand in their way.
Oh, and interest rates going up is just a bonus to the "agree to refinance" scheme, 'cause those refinances will be at higher, more exciting interest rates.
I give it two years, and you'll be seeing class action lawsuits, if not sooner.

.
 
One last thought; Get a new boogey man. The GSE's are not your enemy. Frankly they have done more to standardize/stabilize the appraisal methodology industry than USPAP.

What?

Maybe they should stop sleeping with the Chief Counsels of large banks. or

They should stop hiring stippers. or

They should share the data they steal from appraisers. or

they can hire Franklin Raines for the Chief of the Accounting Fraud department.
 
So right now we have a down turn in business. Is this an opportunity for you to improve; your knowledge, methods, procedures, etc. The answer is yes. What else could you do during this slow time? If your thinking go out and expand your client base. Well the answer is your too late. Your standing in the same soup line as many others. Personally I have strongly resisted refi work, FHA work, and AMC work. That's does not mean I don't do any of that, but I don't if I don't have too. Right now I may do some of that work. I am going to still be choosey about it. If the only benefit I receive is money then I don't want it. Its not enough, I need the market knowledge(staying current in the market segment more than the money). So to relieve some of angst that some of you are feeling/experiencing now. this business will turn back around simply because we are a capitalist society and people like to spend money. Refi's wont stop! This is a temporary lull. Pretty soon people will go out and buy a new car, renovate a bathroom, go to Disney land/world. We sold houses at 14% interest rates. There is a huge market of people wanting to buy a house. We have a shortage of housing in Charlotte MSA. Developers are already starting new home s/d. The winter here was exceptionally cold one and it stifles activity of all kinds. Political environment is toxic.

So maybe George Hatches started this thread on competency was really an attempt to get members to open their eyes a little. Attempts to get it back on track have failed. So I have nothing else to offer. Maybe George will come up with another thread to create some useful discussion that wont degrade into a mud slinging contest.

One last thought; Get a new boogey man. The GSE's are not your enemy. Frankly they have done more to standardize/stabilize the appraisal methodology industry than USPAP. I have personal contact with GSE's employees. Frankly I was very impressed and was motivated to work harder and provide more detail in my reports.

I have a long time client I've been doing business with under one masthead or another for 20+ years. One of those situations where I was on the short list of a bank that got ate up by another bank which merged with another banks and so on. They're a portfolio lender so they do a wide range of property types, one being high value SFRs and proposed construction of SFRs and other property types. So in addition to appraising the various property types I also do some of the outside reviews (they get an outside review on anything over $2M). Their Chief Appraiser is an AQB USPAP Instructor I've been knowing for many years, so they know what they want and they understand what it is they're getting when they get it back.

This cycle around they were having a tough time finding SFR appraisers in certain areas who would slow down enough to address everything they were asking for in their engagement letters, the fee-is-no-object terms of engagement notwithstanding. I don't think there's anyone on their panel with less than 20+ years in the business and a few of their regulars have been at it longer than me. And many of them were pushing back on this lender's appraisal policies, if not ignoring them outright in favor of their widget.

So the lender has been on me to take on some of those SFR assignments. Which messes me up when I'm working on my normal workload. It's hard to deal with a combination of assignments that have different timelines - get this SFR done on an SFR timeline while I still have other assignments that have already been waiting for 2+ weeks.

My other situation is that I don't want to get too exposed to the roller coaster ride you guys have to put up with. I can't afford to tie too much of my book of work to a niche that's here today and gone tomorrow, nor do I want to get back into the Fannie gig, because as I say I haven't done anything in that vein for many years and I haven't even owned an appraisalware suite for the last 10 years. so i've actually been withdrawing a little from this particular client and not taking on some of these assignments unless they're stuck and can't find anyone they trust to do the do.

My point is this (and several of the folks in this thread will vouch for it) : in at least some regions there really are some opportunities for the SFR appraisers to improve their level of play and to work their way into other assignment types and other client types. But in order to do that they need to step away from watching the clock and focus on their relationships, not their fees so much. What are our users asking for and how can we *at least* meet those expectations if not add in a little more? If we run into an angle that perhaps some other appraisers wouldn't see, are we willing to gut it out and take the hit on the fee if that's what it takes to get to the prize at the bottom of the cereal box? How can we make our reports more readable and user-friendly so that even the loan processor can follow our reasoning in what oftentimes involve some convoluted or complicated situations? How can we break a complicated problem down to look at it in terms of our fundamentals? How well do we understand *why* we're doing what we do as a means of figuring out how to do it better?

And most of all, can we at least try not to hate everyone we work for? Can we refrain from characterizing them all as our primary enemy, or assuming they're working in bad faith to rip off everyone they do business with?
 
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