How long the comps we can go back?

[J Grant]

If you want to make any money in Law,


you'd better have an engineering degree or something substantial or go to work for dad's law firm. And I doubt many medical colleges will let you in with an art degree. You have tests to pass - so most doctors will have a pre-med, chemistry, biology, or other hard science degree. An old classmate of mine had a PhD in Chemical Engineering, he was an expert in spider venom, before going to medical school after spending 2 years in the Army, they financed it and he became a pathologist. Retired from the Army he became a pathologist at a regional hospital - retired now on a trout stream.


I don't see how it levels anything. The college degree has become a nothing burger. Grade inflation and huge student debt.

Keep telling ourselves that.

The statistics show otherwise. BTW - a purpose and benefit of being educated is the education itself, not just what it gets you in the job market. The labor statistics don't include people who open their own businesses, make it in the creative fields, etc.

 

[TerryRohrer]

The QE hours are the same.

regardless of the coverage of the PAREA course. I think there's a fair bit more to learning how to operate in the role than just learning the mechanics of the SR1/SR2 applications.

I saw a comment by a current PAREA enrollees. They complete 10 appraisals to complete the program.

 

[George Hatch]

I saw a comment by a current PAREA enrollees. They complete 10 appraisals to complete the program.

I hate that aspect of it the worst, but there are other aspects of this alternative which (IMO) also bode poorly for long term performance in the role.

Our objectivity and impartiality get challenged on a constant basis and from all directions, sometimes even including our own clients. I don't see how a virtual assignment with no live interaction or extended disagreement can address that aspect of professional practice often enough to make a mark on the individual.

We will get challenged. There will be ROVs. There will be appeals to let it slide just this once because this borrower is a really good guy with gold plated credit. There apparently will be challenges to our impartiality WRT identity politics. There will be reviewer stips which sometimes will have merit and sometimes won't. And I don't think a contrived word problem on a one-and-done basis is enough exposure to these challenges to attenuate the individual to the necessity of defending their role against all comers.

IMO. I think PAREA might be a good vehicle for delivering qualifying education instruction, but is wholly inadequate to exposing participants to the IRL challenges of the appraiser/client relationship. Which that's the starting point for the public's trust in the role of the appraiser and the credibility of the profession as a whole. If your clients think they can get you to lie for them upon demand then that understanding spreads among their peers and associates like a hillside wildfire on a 120* afternoon. And WRT the role and conduct we assert, no contrived word problem can even approach emulating the real thing.

It's like training for a marathon on an exercise bike in an air conditioned gym. With CNN on the TV screens in front of you.

 

[George Hatch]

Keep telling ourselves that.

The statistics show otherwise. BTW - a purpose and benefit of being educated is the education itself, not just what it gets you in the job market. The labor statistics don't include people who open their own businesses, make it in the creative fields, etc.

What's the point of an $80k/yr office worker job when they owe $150k in student loan debt + their $30k car loan debt? They can run their mouth about being highly educated and making $80k but their bottom line is still a week-to-week struggle that puts them any further ahead of a worker who has 4-5 more years of IRL employment experience.

 

[J Grant]

What's the point of an $80k/yr office worker job when they owe $150k in student loan debt + their $30k car loan debt? They can run their mouth about being highly educated and making $80k but their bottom line is still a week-to-week struggle that puts them any further ahead of a worker who has 4-5 more years of IRL employment experience.

Because they make twice as much as the non college grad earning 40k. And not all grads have high student loans ( or any student loans )

I agree a large student loan nut is a negative - unless it repays in X years.

 

[Mark K]

two year degree or there are some alternatives aka shortcuts

The salary for a Certified Nursing Assistant (CNA) in North Carolina can vary depending on experience, skills, workplace, and duties. In general, the salary range for a CNA in the United States is between $22,000 and $54,000 annually, with the majority of salaries falling between $31,500 and $41,500.

I recently received by mistake an email to my address offering me a position from a legitimate hospital. They liked my resume and offered a job as Cert. Nurse Anesthetist. Salary...$280K plus benefits as W-2 employee, $350K as 1099 contractor. I know, big difference between CN Assistant and CN Anesthetist.

I told them I accept but wondered if my Cert Res Appraiser would qualify me for the position. They had mistyped the address but thanked me for my quick response and said that no, my appraiser experience didn't qualify me for the job.

$280K, schedule was basically 8-5, plus lots of benees. No work from home, however. . Not bad money.

OTOH, 4 yr. degree absolutely not necessary for appraising, commercial or residential.

The college degree has become a nothing burger. Grade inflation and huge student debt.

Depends on the degree and the college. Also, a degree opens a LOT of doors that remain closed otherwise.

 

[J Grant]

I recently received by mistake an email to my address offering me a position from a legitimate hospital. They liked my resume and offered a job as Cert. Nurse Anesthetist. Salary...$280K plus benefits as W-2 employee, $350K as 1099 contractor. I know, big difference between CN Assistant and CN Anesthetist.

I told them I accept but wondered if my Cert Res Appraiser would qualify me for the position. They had mistyped the address but thanked me for my quick response and said that no, my appraiser experience didn't qualify me for the job.

$280K, schedule was basically 8-5, plus lots of benees. No work from home, however. . Not bad money.

OTOH, 4 yr. degree absolutely not necessary for appraising, commercial or residential.



Depends on the degree and the college. Also, a degree opens a LOT of doors that remain closed otherwise.

A corrections officer makes more than many a residential license appraiser these days - which is a terrible job, but they get benefits 401k, and I've seen sign-on bonuses for them up to 15k.
If they had kept the college degree in place, IMO fees would not have gotten degraded to the point they are now with AMC's

You have your opinion wrt a degree for appraisal, I have mine. I highly doubt that most of the most clueless asking for help graduated college - they managed to get licensed, but their estions show a complete lack of being able to apply/grasp the principles and the slightest bit of complexity renders them coming up with the most bizarre work around. I assume they have memorized enough to pass the test.

Any of us can get stumped and ask for help or be off in a value on occasion, but the lack of basic problem solving seen here speaks to something no amount of more appraisal courses can address, and they show up time after time asking the same questions which were answered for them months ago - all of them referincing an AMC assignment they are working on.

 

[George Hatch]

Because they make twice as much as the non college grad earning 40k. And not all grads have high student loans ( or any student loans )

I agree a large student loan nut is a negative - unless it repays in X years.

Spending those years particular years on an occupational credential is a risk and it has an opportunity cost in addition to a monetary cost, whether the student is using their own money or someone else's. If the individual is compatible with the type of occupation that requires that credential then it can pay off. If not then it's worse than a waste, it becomes an actual loss.

The win/lose outcome isn't even limited to the employment and income but also includes consideration of where to live and how to live; particularly for those occupations which exist primarily in the urban employment centers. The kids are calling the live/work balance. If someone wants to live the big city life then living in the big city becomes a win. But if they don't like living in the big city or living with the people who love it there then living in that environment is a loss, not a win. Even if the money is good.

Keeping up with the Jones' has a much different cost in Miami than in flyover country. Both monetarily and mentally. It ain't all about the bag and the shoes unless that bag and those shoes are important to them.

 

[George Hatch]

A corrections officer makes more than many a residential license appraiser these days - which is a terrible job, but they get benefits 401k, and I've seen sign-on bonuses for them up to 15k.
If they had kept the college degree in place, IMO fees would not have gotten degraded to the point they are now with AMC's

You have your opinion wrt a degree for appraisal, I have mine. I highly doubt that most of the most clueless asking for help graduated college - they managed to get licensed, but their estions show a complete lack of being able to apply/grasp the principles and the slightest bit of complexity renders them coming up with the most bizarre work around. I assume they have memorized enough to pass the test.

Any of us can get stumped and ask for help or be off in a value on occasion, but the lack of basic problem solving seen here speaks to something no amount of more appraisal courses can address, and they show up time after time asking the same questions which were answered for them months ago - all of them referincing an AMC assignment they are working on.

What a bunch of horsesht. Your fees were higher and your business interests were stronger *before* they advanced the academic requirements to include a 4yr degree.

And the reason people keep coming here asking technical questions about appraising is directly related to the levels of their previous exposure to those questions in their day-to-day, not to their intellectual ability to learn and retain the material once elaborated in longhand.

Your own technical competency is more directly related to your participation in these discussions and the time/effort you have personally put into them. Not to your academic education. I've watched your own talking points improve over the years - it was your exposure that changed, not your education level. And good on you for making the effort. You have weighed and considered and in some cases adopted what other people have put forth. Sometimes after losing the argument with them. But don't kid yourself: it wasn't some intro to religious history or English Lit course you took when you were 20 which enabled your technical progression; it was your more recent exercise of your own thinking that did it. If you weren't here then you wouldn't have done it on your own.

The same applies to me and to most of the other participants here. I operate on a completely derivative manner based on what I've seen from others. I don't break any new ground or advance any original thinking . DW is an original thinker and an actual thought leader. Santora is/was an original thinker. Terrell is an original thinker. I am not that. I just know how to write a paragraph. And how to snark when people are being stubborn. The most common reason I tell someone they're being dumb about something (after the 6th or 7th exchange on the same thing) is because I think they're leading with their emotions and backing their reasoning in to fit their already-formed judgements. Not because I think they're too uneducated or too dumb to use their reasoning skills. Because I don't think anyone here is actually too dumb to analyze and consider the info prior to jumping to their conclusions. "Won't do it" is an entirely separate - and far more egregious - condition than "can't do it".

I've accrued thousands of hours of face time with thousands of appraisers over an extended time frame and I can PROMISE you that almost no licensees are too dumb to learn how to perform to specs. That some of them haven't only speaks to what has passed as acceptable at the lender level. As has been identified and passed down to them by their respective supervisors.

"Forget everything you learned in your appraisal 101/102 course, I'm going to show you how it's done in the real world". ​

That's the real problem we've been fighting in the competency issue. IMO

 

[J Grant]

I am not arguing that college is the best path for everyone, and many careers or fields/trads have no college and can have a bright or bit high or lucrative future. Of course, there is a plethora of dead-end and low-wage jobs for non-graduates, and sadly, even these are drying up - supermarket checkout, etc- and college grads who make bad life choices can do poorly as well.)

I was linking college to appraisal and other professions that have college have an entry barrier and most of them are in far better shape than res appraisals, and I believe the kind of critical thinking and exposure to broad concepts make (most ) people who attend college better at appraising.

It is not lack of competence exactly that i see in the completely clueless posts but an inability to reason or grasp multiple lines of analsysi at once, and the same posters show up month after month and even year after year having learnt nothing from all the help they get here, they ask the same questions over and over.

That is different than any of us or any appraiser lacking competence in an area or once in awhile stumped by a difficult assignment,