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Flood Zone

flapp555 said:
I got a revision from a lender (not an AMC). I did an appraisal on a property that is in a flood zone. (It's a sale, not a refi) I said that it was in the report and added the flood map. They have sent it back 3 times telling me to change it from AE to X and that it is not in a flood zone because Corelogic told them so and provided a page to prove this. not that all these sources hold water but, MLS data, IMAPP, Realist, property records and FEMA say flood zone AE. They are still coming back for a 4th time telling me I need to change it to X. I called FEMA today and they said that it is in fact AE zone and so is everything around it. (It's not like it's on the cusp of not being in that zone). The whole map is lit up blue for AE everywhere around the house. The lender is still hounding me. I explained in the revision that I did not make any changes and why. I also listed all the sources. This is not the first time I've been pushed in the corner with this "well, Corelogic says so" revision. This time though, they aren't taking no for an answer. I refuse to change it. What do you all think I should do at this point to shut them up. They keep coming back with the same revision. I know I will wake up to another one in my email in the morning,
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All they (Lender) need to do is provide a "Certification" from a Surveying Engineer providing the elevation.

Had a similar situation many years back on a Lake property that was 40+ feet above the lake, they wanted it shown in a Flood Zone.........absolutely hysterical
 
Vermonter said:
Whatever you say bud-

"About 75% of the nation’s flood insurance maps are outdated, leaving the door open for property owners to seek their own flood mapping and appeal."

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Take a look at the question you are asked by the form. It says "FEMA Special Flood Hazard Zone". You mark, 'yes' or 'no'. It does not ask for the CoreLogic flood determination. If you are using paper FEMA maps... then yeah, you may get it wrong.
 
sputnam said:
Take a look at the question you are asked by the form. It says "FEMA Special Flood Hazard Zone". You mark, 'yes' or 'no'. It does not ask for the CoreLogic flood determination. If you are using paper FEMA maps... then yeah, you may get it wrong.
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Yes and if that FEMA Special Flood Hazard Zone determination is based on outdated maps, it may be wrong. Which is why people are appealing with other sources.

It has nothing to do with paper maps, altho I have to point out many FEMA digital maps are renders of scanned paper maps. I can pull up and create firmettes in my area and some of the maps are dated as far back as 1974
 
Vermonter said:
Yes and if that FEMA Special Flood Hazard Zone determination is based on outdated maps, it may be wrong. Which is why people are appealing with other sources.

It has nothing to do with paper maps, altho I have to point out many FEMA digital maps are renders of scanned paper maps. I can pull up and create firmettes in my area and some of the maps are dated as far back as 1974
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ever thought that is because mapping has not changed that specific property locations determination from years back?
 
BRCJR said:
ever thought that is because mapping has not changed that specific property locations determination from years back?
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I'm sure that's the case for most of that mapped area, but land changes over time, brooks and rivers move, problem sites are filled by owners or gov. Individual parcels can technically be removed from or added to flood zones over time and those are the ones I thought we were talking about here.
 
A lot of good posts in this thread. This seems to be one of those times where the rigidity that regulatory agencies push for in SF residential appraising can be a bit limiting.

If this were a commercial appraisal, I would disclose my findings, disclose the data that has suggested otherwise, acknowledge that an elevation survey has not been provided (unless it has), and make an extraordinary assumption of whether it is or is not in a flood plain, due to the conflicting data. Seems like this is a scope of work issue that *should* fall outside of the realm of the appraiser to make the final determination.
 
Vermonter said:
Whatever you say bud-

"About 75% of the nation’s flood insurance maps are outdated, leaving the door open for property owners to seek their own flood mapping and appeal."

Click to expand...
you can get a survey to see if the property is or is not in the flood zone. OTOH, changes in land use change the factor civil engineers call "Time of Concentration". I used to do flood routing for a development engineering company. TOC varies according to the composition of the land and the topography. Woods slow runoff the most. Pastures next. Mown lawns and fields less so. Roofs, driveways and roads do not absorb water and are nigh 100% runoff. The faster water runs off the higher the flood waters get, and the quicker it recedes. Therefore, increased development reduces the TOC and increases the flood height. Our flood maps locally have been updated on intervals of about 25 years. There has only been one map update since I began appraising 34 years ago. And maps were wrong then because I sat thru the 1974 flood on a road above a creek I had to cross to get home. Current maps are wrong. The water was much higher. And it flooded in 1892 and 1974...So, that's not even a 100 year period.
 
The lender should just waive the appraisal. This way they won't have to worry about the flood zone. This is what the lender wants to do anyways. The lender is probably pissed off that the appraisal is holding the loan up.
 
1. Tell the lender to read #3 of the URAR
The appraiser has examined the available flood maps that are provided by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (or other data sources) and has noted in this appraisal report whether any portion of the subject site is located in an
identified Special Flood Hazard Area. Because the appraiser is not a surveyor, he or she makes no guarantees, express or implied, regarding this determination.

*it doesn't say corelogic flood determination. Ever find it STRANGE that these do not come with maps???


I hate posting AI, but here goes...

When a lender (or a third-party vendor like CoreLogic) produces a flood certification / flood zone determination for a mortgage application, the federal and industry practice generally focuses on the **location of the improved real estate securing the loan — most importantly the dwelling or structure that is collateral for the loan — and not necessarily the entire raw parcel or site for insurance requirement purposes.


What CoreLogic Flood Certifications Typically Cover​


  • Lenders use a Standard Flood Hazard Determination Form (SFHDF) (FEMA Form 086-0-32) to determine flood risk for federal mortgage compliance. This form is required for loans secured by improved real estate (e.g., a house or mobile home) and is what CoreLogic’s flood product automates.
  • The purpose of the determination is to identify whether the building or structure securing the mortgage is located in a Special Flood Hazard Area (SFHA), because that drives flood insurance requirements under federal law.
  • Many lender-ordered flood certificates report the flood zone based on where the main dwelling sits rather than explicitly mapping every corner of the lot — which means the certificate may show “Not in SFHA” even if portions of the lot extend into a flood zone.
 
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