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More AMC and PDC Bull

It seems to me that you don't believe the lenders which operate via AMCs are leaning on the AMCs to deliver at the lowest possible cost. That 100% of the motivation to fee shop is AMC-driven. That if their end was fixed instead of being extracted from the residual of the total then they would stop shopping by fee.

Logic check: Pretend you're a lender and the order comes down prohibiting your patronage of the bundled fee model so that from now on the lender pays the AMC and the appraiser separately. Let's also pretend this lender will act as a rational buyer via the principle of substitution

  • AMC#1 charges $100 for their end and the one-size appraisal fee of $350
  • AMC#2 charges $100 for their end and the one-size appraisal fee of $340

Their turn times and error rates are more/less the same. Regardless of what the appraisers think, the lender considers the quality of both to be similar. Substitutes for each other, if we want to characterize it that way.

  • Which would a rational buyer choose?
  • If AMC#1 objected to losing the business because their total was $10 higher, how would they most likely act in order to beat AMC#2 out for that lender's business?
 
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George Hatch said:
It seems to me that you don't believe the lenders which operate via AMCs are leaning on the AMCs to deliver at the lowest possible cost. That 100% of the motivation to fee shop is AMC-driven. That if their end was fixed instead of being extracted from the residual of the total then they would stop shopping by fee.

Logic check: Pretend you're a lender and the order comes down prohibiting your patronage of the bundled fee model so that from now on the lender pays the AMC and the appraiser separately. Let's also pretend this lender will act as a rational buyer via the principle of substitution

  • AMC#1 charges $100 for their end and the one-size appraisal fee of $350
  • AMC#2 charges $100 for their end and the one-size appraisal fee of $340

Their turn times and error rates are more/less the same. Regardless of what the appraisers think, the lender considers the quality of both to be similar. Substitutes for each other, if we want to characterize it that way.

  • Which would a rational buyer choose?
  • If AMC#1 objected to losing the business because their total was $10 higher, how would they most likely act in order to beat AMC#2 out for that lender's business?
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Where did this terminology of a rational buyer come from? A lender acts as a regulated buyer in these mortgage loans and when no AMC is used, the lender must pay C and R fees to appraisers

When an AMC is involved, the AMC is still supposed to pay an C and R fee to the appraiser, which became corrupted via the second HVCC ruling ( which you have spoken out against, to your credit) and for far too long no pushback by a legal court regarding how excessive the AMC portion kept of the bundled fee became.

I can not envision a lender picking one AMC over the next for $10, since the borrower covers the appraisal fee (which the lender forwards to the AMC), whether the lender quotes the borrower $10 more or less as the appraisal fee. As long as the borrower covers the amount, the lender pays nothing out of pocket as a hard cost..
 
chad hampton said:
Probably what Luigi was told :rof:

I think appraisers will keep fighting. But you guys can lay down anytime you want.
Click to expand...
It's not about laying down. It's about correctly seeing the sources of the problems so that solutions and improvements can be found and implemented. A lot of the 'source' has been and is us but, we spend our intellectual energy ranting about 'Them'.
 
Sadie said:
When this has been tried, the specter of price fixing rears its ugly head. "Oh you can't discuss fees because that borders on price fixing/anti trust laws." I say that's nonsense. Discussing fees is different from setting fees. I am not at all an attorney, but it seems there are 2 standards for professional services. One for appraisers and one for everyone else.
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I'm not talking about price collusion. CPAs aren't allowed do price fix either. We have never, in general, cooperated with each other. I get an assignment in your town and instead helping me with data that you have at your fingertips... you send me packing.., and may want to lecture me about why I'm there. Maybe I'm there because that Client doesn't know you exist.. or you didn't answer the phone... or they just don't know you and prefer to use someone they know and trust. I'm talking about all the other things we didn't do but could have.

We never, even within our own organizations did much to police the industry. The trade organizations that existed before state licensing did littlr to nothing to remove or educate appraisers who were doing shoddy work. We were not highly trusted, as a group. That's why the Appraisal Institute and USPAP and some of the State Appraisal Boards talk abut 'public trust'. Since we didn't manage ourselves as a group of professionals... our clients and regulators did it for us.
 
Appraisers are leaving the profession by the thousands while they add a dozen or so a year. You guys want to talk about the free market, that’s the free market speaking with regards to this profession.
 
It appears J Grant has hit a nerve and upset more than a few AMC admirers in here, could it be because what she is posting is correct?
 
So this is about disclosure on the good faith and HUD 1 show the consumer our fee and the AMC f ee ok I am good with that

There is a possible unintended consequence people talk realtors talk etc I dont want my volume fee or any fee to get out there

I read that the appraisal institute supports this seperation of AMC fee and appraiser fee,

I have my fees in my my mind what I will accept and not accept, but I dont have to accept stuff if i dont want to but i like extra money who doesnt
 
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Normally when an industry has heavy government regulations there is tons of money flying around. It is flying around here too, just not to the appraisers. Somehow they don't get a good share of the fat.
 
George Hatch said:
It seems to me that you don't believe the lenders which operate via AMCs are leaning on the AMCs to deliver at the lowest possible cost. That 100% of the motivation to fee shop is AMC-driven. That if their end was fixed instead of being extracted from the residual of the total then they would stop shopping by fee.

Logic check: Pretend you're a lender and the order comes down prohibiting your patronage of the bundled fee model so that from now on the lender pays the AMC and the appraiser separately. Let's also pretend this lender will act as a rational buyer via the principle of substitution

  • AMC#1 charges $100 for their end and the one-size appraisal fee of $350
  • AMC#2 charges $100 for their end and the one-size appraisal fee of $340

Their turn times and error rates are more/less the same. Regardless of what the appraisers think, the lender considers the quality of both to be similar. Substitutes for each other, if we want to characterize it that way.

  • Which would a rational buyer choose?
  • If AMC#1 objected to losing the business because their total was $10 higher, how would they most likely act in order to beat AMC#2 out for that lender's business?
Click to expand...
Which AMC would have the appraisers? #1 or #2? Apply your same logic.
 
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