How is Business and your anticipation for the future?

[JTip]

Sometimes I wonder what their thoughts are of a profession that requires a four-year college degree and 3,000 hours of documented work plus 300 hours of additional course work.

I used to love telling this story in class, especially USPAP.....

Back in the days when the "all knowing" AQB said CR needed a 4 year degree (lasted a year or so), I was appraising a nice house in town.

Young couple, he was a fireman paid by the city and she was stay at home. Lovely brick home with old details, just charming. She followed me around like a puppy asking, "do you like doing this?". I said it's great, love seeing old homes like this, its fun. She wanted to know how to become an appraiser, so I did the spiel. Log book, class, and degree, which is now a 4 year for residential.

She asked, "What kind of degree do you need? Something specialized?".

"No", I said, "the degree can be anything, like basketweaving or pottery, doesn't matter", in the politest voice I could muster.

Her eyes LIT UP.

We continue out to the detached one car garage, and she opens to automatic door to reveal dozens of shelves full of pottery, and in the corner was a kiln the size of a car. And yes, she had a 4 year degree in pottery from a major university.

The four-year degree requirement is a joke.

 

[J Grant]

I used to love telling this story in class, especially USPAP.....

Back in the days when the "all knowing" AQB said CR needed a 4 year degree (lasted a year or so), I was appraising a nice house in town.

Young couple, he was a fireman paid by the city and she was stay at home. Lovely brick home with old details, just charming. She followed me around like a puppy asking, "do you like doing this?". I said it's great, love seeing old homes like this, its fun. She wanted to know how to become an appraiser, so I did the spiel. Log book, class, and degree, which is now a 4 year for residential.

She asked, "What kind of degree do you need? Something specialized?".

"No", I said, "the degree can be anything, like basketweaving or pottery, doesn't matter", in the politest voice I could muster.

Her eyes LIT UP.

We continue out to the detached one car garage, and she opens to automatic door to reveal dozens of shelves full of pottery, and in the corner was a kiln the size of a car. And yes, she had a 4 year degree in pottery from a major university.

The four-year degree requirement is a joke.

This is a stupid story. It is typically a degree in fine arts with pottery as a major or a course elective. She did not just study pottery. You were rude to infer that her degree was idiotic. There are other course requirements. Maybe she sells her pottery and makes money for her family or teaches it. IDK. But you describe her as an idiot. Her eyes LIT up. Because she realized if she wanted to pursue appraising, her degree would be acceptable.

College is also a requirement for officer rank in the army ( any degree) and for advancement in law enforcement. And for medicine and for law, and for those fields any degree. College degrees are demanding and include the humanities for a reason. Certification in appraising requires a college degree. Their end of the business is doing fine. How is the real estate license end of appraising since they dropped the degree requirement? Terrible. Fees stagnate, the GSEs are moving away from appraisals and using alternative products and non-appraisers to inspect/data collect.

You think a four-year degree is a joke - then why do the majority of professions require one ?

 

[chad hampton]

I would argue that the current requirements are a joke.

 

[WestMichiganCG]

I used to love telling this story in class, especially USPAP.....

Back in the days when the "all knowing" AQB said CR needed a 4 year degree (lasted a year or so), I was appraising a nice house in town.

Young couple, he was a fireman paid by the city and she was stay at home. Lovely brick home with old details, just charming. She followed me around like a puppy asking, "do you like doing this?". I said it's great, love seeing old homes like this, its fun. She wanted to know how to become an appraiser, so I did the spiel. Log book, class, and degree, which is now a 4 year for residential.

She asked, "What kind of degree do you need? Something specialized?".

"No", I said, "the degree can be anything, like basketweaving or pottery, doesn't matter", in the politest voice I could muster.

Her eyes LIT UP.

We continue out to the detached one car garage, and she opens to automatic door to reveal dozens of shelves full of pottery, and in the corner was a kiln the size of a car. And yes, she had a 4 year degree in pottery from a major university.

The four-year degree requirement is a joke.

My argument for the four-year degree is transferability. I made a living for 12-years as an engineer and I'm 16-years into commercial appraising. My classes were simpler for me with an engineering degree than my brother with a counseling degree but we both got through. I thought the Advanced Income II class with the Appraisal Institute was thorough and there were people in that class that had failed it more than once. You need it for the MAI. I think you can challenge yourself academically in this career. I would also recommend getting one because if prospects go sour, you have something to fall back on. One of my favorite stories to tell is running into almost all of my Civil Engineering classmates at a party 20-years later. None of us were in engineering anymore as we graduated in the dot.com bubble of the 90's and typically moved into business, sales and insurance. The information we learned was transferable and we were able to pick up another trade with effort and still provide for our families.

 

[chad hampton]

I’m just a fan of even a little bit of hardship to enter a profession. I have an engineering degree, but I don’t think everybody needs to go to engineering school to become an appraiser. But like you said it’s open a lot of other doors for me over the years. I don’t think in today’s day and age having a four-year requirement is that big of a hurdle. I have kids in high school, I’m not aware of anybody that isn’t going to some level of higher education. My one friend’s kid went to a nine month welding program, maybe there can be an exception for a trade school. I’m also a supporter of a military exemption.

But I don’t think kids who graduate high school, then bumbled their way around life driving Uber and doing other odds and ends should qualify for an appraisal certification any more than they should qualify for a accounting, engineering, or attorney license.

the AQB should just come out and be honest, they don’t want educated professionals in this job. In fact, you are often referred to as labor in their circles. They want the lowest cost of labor so they can help out their friends in the AMC‘s who are pushing this.

 

[WestMichiganCG]

I’m just a fan of even a little bit of hardship to enter a profession. I have an engineering degree, but I don’t think everybody needs to go to engineering school to become an appraiser. But like you said it’s open a lot of other doors for me over the years. I don’t think in today’s day and age having a four-year requirement is that big of a hurdle. I have kids in high school, I’m not aware of anybody that isn’t going to some level of higher education. My one friend’s kid went to a nine month welding program, maybe there can be an exception for a trade school. I’m also a supporter of a military exemption.

But I don’t think kids who graduate high school, then bumbled their way around life driving Uber and doing other odds and ends should qualify for an appraisal certification any more than they should qualify for a accounting, engineering, or attorney license.

the AQB should just come out and be honest, they don’t want educated professionals in this job. In fact, you are often referred to as labor in their circles. They want the lowest cost of labor so they can help out their friends in the AMC‘s who are pushing this.

My kids are Gen-Z and they don't have it easy either. I'm a Gen-Xer so I steered them towards college. The trades got hammered shortly after I graduated high school. Ironically, there's a strong chance I would have been better off if I'd weathered the trades. There is a shifting landscape in the US and the best you can do is make yourself adaptable. The American Dream has changed immensely and it's looking like we're in a New Gilded Age.

 

[J Grant]

I’m just a fan of even a little bit of hardship to enter a profession. I have an engineering degree, but I don’t think everybody needs to go to engineering school to become an appraiser. But like you said it’s open a lot of other doors for me over the years. I don’t think in today’s day and age having a four-year requirement is that big of a hurdle. I have kids in high school, I’m not aware of anybody that isn’t going to some level of higher education. My one friend’s kid went to a nine month welding program, maybe there can be an exception for a trade school. I’m also a supporter of a military exemption.

But I don’t think kids who graduate high school, then bumbled their way around life driving Uber and doing other odds and ends should qualify for an appraisal certification any more than they should qualify for a accounting, engineering, or attorney license.

the AQB should just come out and be honest, they don’t want educated professionals in this job. In fact, you are often referred to as labor in their circles. They want the lowest cost of labor so they can help out their friends in the AMC‘s who are pushing this.

The agenda from the GSE's is driving the lowest common denominator to dominate the res lending end of the profession. Which is unfortunate since trillions are at stake in the nation's housing market, with most ordinary Americans having their assets and savings tied up in residential Real Estate, not commercial. The AMC system in its current form is a parasite leeching off, getting the lowest fee from its appraiser "vendors" rather than choosing the most qualified for the order.

The stakeholders want the least educated to be able to enter appraising with just a handful of college or Junior college credits ( watch them drop that soon too). They are having such a hard time getting people in the profession due to AMC fee predation that, rather than fix the AMC fee structure as the problem, they keep dumbing down the requirements.

The fact that they dropped even an appraisal requirement to do the "PDR collection" ( their legal department's version of an inspection) says it all.

The folks without a degree would have been grandfathered in and benefited. Well, they got their way, they were scornful of a degree, voiced their opinion and voted against it, and now they get to compete for scraps with non-appraisers for the pathetic pay of doing a PDR collection

As others noted, a degree gives one more options, and it also teaches one critical thinking and reasoning via the humanities. That is what college adds, which is not present in simply taking more appraisal courses. That is why medicine, the law, the military, etc., want a well-rounded person who earned a college degree, which includes some humanities, even if the degree is more specialized, such as engineering or computer sciences.

Fields that require training, which only teach the skills needed in that field, are trades and not professions because of the distinction.

 

[J Grant]

My kids are Gen-Z and they don't have it easy either. I'm a Gen-Xer so I steered them towards college. The trades got hammered shortly after I graduated high school. Ironically, there's a strong chance I would have been better off if I'd weathered the trades. There is a shifting landscape in the US and the best you can do is make yourself adaptable. The American Dream has changed immensely and it's looking like we're in a New Gilded Age.

The trades, in some cases, are outperforming college degrees - though not everyone is cut out for the higher-paying trades. If the professionals start losing too many jobs, they are the customer base for paying higher fees to tradespeople. Overall, college degrees still outperform having no degree.

It is a shifting landscape out there for sure.

 

[WestMichiganCG]

The trades, in some cases, are outperforming college degrees - though not everyone is cut out for the higher-paying trades. If the professionals start losing too many jobs, they are the customer base for paying higher fees to tradespeople. Overall, college degrees still outperform having no degree.

It is a shifting landscape out there for sure.

It's not a given though. My neighbor's kid didn't feel like going to college. He was given a new truck, right out of high school, by his company and has no college debt. I have another neighbor that eventually started hiring more and more crews and now is bidding jobs to a team. He has a pretty swanky life and is younger than I am. Right now, I'd rather be in charge of three crews of house siders and roofers than three crews of appraisers.

 

[Vermonter]

It is a shifting landscape out there for sure.

This is the biggest problem. Your chosen degree may or may not be a positive ROI by the time you break even.