Are you currently doing appraisals with 3.6 form?

[alebrewer]

No one should be doing 3.6 reports for less than $700... Its not just the extra work, we've been getting screwed over on fees for years.

I don't disagree with you emotionally, but the logic behind the impetus seems a bit sketchy. For instance - let's say taxi drivers feel the same way about their business being slowly (or quickly in some markets) taken by automated cars. One option available is to take the position you're proffering: 'since we're losing volume, let's just charge more'. Now - put yourself in the position of needing a taxi. Will you pay over market for your taxi ride just because you feel sorry for the taxi drivers who are losing their industry?

And I'm sure there are folks who will say, 'absolutely'! Such responses are, however, emotionally driven and most likely will not be followed through. That's kinda how I see our industry. I'd love it if we could just 'charge more'. Problem is that the 'big' shops (RSDS, AMC staff, etc.) are gonna undercut you. The days of the 'one appraiser shop', I'm afraid, are numbered.

 

[PeterPetrelli]

I've completed one so far. "hated it" I've been asked for bids on several. I don't seem to be getting them. I guess it's because I quote at least $650 on the easy cookie-cutter ones and over $1000 for complex. I've been in the business over 20 years and I know somewhere out there an appraiser is going to accept it at a much lower price. Maybe I am pricing myself out of a job but I dont care. Every year we are required to do more and add more to the report but they never stand up for us and demand these companies pay us more. When I started over 20 years ago a basic appraisal was $300. Now a lot of appraisers are still doing it for that. I even get orders with less than 300 which i turn down. Luckily, I am at a point in my life where if I choose I can retire. Don't really want to retire but I'm so tired of the bs they sling at us. This 3.6 requires information that does not apply to appraisals so know they have us collecting data for someone else. They are data mining probably with the end game of getting rid of most appraisers. I used to love my job. Now........ not so much

Exactly this... ALL of it. Everything you said is spot on. I have not completed a 3.6 for a client yet but I did one for my own benefit to see how long and how difficult it was going to be.
I refuse to work for nothing. It's been bad over the past 4-5 years with these stupid AMCs taking up all the business and then shopping for the cheapest appraiser. I don't play that game. And if anyone thinks I'm doing 3.6 reports for anywhere close to what I charge for a 1004, they're absolutely insane. We all know they will be using our data to train AI models to replace us. Just look at the level of detail on the 3.6 and tell me that isn't exactly what they're doing... I do a lot of work with AI outside of appraising and it's abundantly clear. If we are training our replacement, we deserve to be compensated. I'm quoting $750 as a base fee for 3.6. I don't think any appraiser should be going below $700 and we should all stick to our guns on this.

 

[PeterPetrelli]

I don't disagree with you emotionally, but the logic behind the impetus seems a bit sketchy. For instance - let's say taxi drivers feel the same way about their business being slowly (or quickly in some markets) taken by automated cars. One option available is to take the position you're proffering: 'since we're losing volume, let's just charge more'. Now - put yourself in the position of needing a taxi. Will you pay over market for your taxi ride just because you feel sorry for the taxi drivers who are losing their industry?

And I'm sure there are folks who will say, 'absolutely'! Such responses are, however, emotionally driven and most likely will not be followed through. That's kinda how I see our industry. I'd love it if we could just 'charge more'. Problem is that the 'big' shops (RSDS, AMC staff, etc.) are gonna undercut you. The days of the 'one appraiser shop', I'm afraid, are numbered.

I hear what you're saying but if they could completely cut out independent fee appraisers altogether, they would have done it by now. The issue we are talking about is that WE need to take control of the market fees instead of allowing them to dictate them to us. They don't have the luxury of cutting us out and we should be demanding proper compensation. Rolling over and saying "well that's just what the market pays so I have to take it" is exactly how we got where we are right now. When I started appraising a standard appraisal was $325-350. There are AMCs who pay that and some even as low as $300 now, 25 years later. That's not even considering the fact that appraisal reports take, at minimum, twice as much work as they used to and with 3.6 will increase again. Right now, AMCs are charging lenders $550-700 for a conv 1004. $700-750 is NOT that big of a jump from there. The issue is that we've been getting screwed with no significant increase in pay for many many years. Now is the time to stand up and say, no more.
Personally, I don't care if I get undercut. I'm not going to continue this rat race of more and more work for less and less money. It's absolutely insane and if you're ok with that, be my guest because I'm out, brother.

 

[PeterPetrelli]

If September doesn’t bring significant changes, it will be delayed. If it isn’t, then the conspiracy that they’re trying to get rid of us will be true.

I'm not sure I'd argue it's a conspiracy but if you do any work with AI to see how fast it's advancing and what it's abilities are, it's painfully obvious that these new reports are going to be used to train models that will eventually replace us. I'm not saying it's happening next year, but 1000% it's coming and anyone saying it's not doesn't understand how far we've gotten with AI. Work automation is absolutely BOOMING right now and data analysis is a very core strength of AI. It's not a conspiracy, it's just a reality of how tech is developing. Seems a lot of lenders are sending out notices that September will bring significant changes in their product ordering. At least that's what I'm getting from my clients.

 

[alebrewer]

I hear what you're saying but if they could completely cut out independent fee appraisers altogether, they would have done it by now. The issue we are talking about is that WE need to take control of the market fees instead of allowing them to dictate them to us. They don't have the luxury of cutting us out and we should be demanding proper compensation. Rolling over and saying "well that's just what the market pays so I have to take it" is exactly how we got where we are right now. When I started appraising a standard appraisal was $325-350. There are AMCs who pay that and some even as low as $300 now, 25 years later. That's not even considering the fact that appraisal reports take, at minimum, twice as much work as they used to and with 3.6 will increase again. Right now, AMCs are charging lenders $550-700 for a conv 1004. $700-750 is NOT that big of a jump from there. The issue is that we've been getting screwed with no significant increase in pay for many many years. Now is the time to stand up and say, no more.
Personally, I don't care if I get undercut. I'm not going to continue this rat race of more and more work for less and less money. It's absolutely insane and if you're ok with that, be my guest because I'm out, brother.

Can't disagree with ya - and wouldn't want to even if I could - except to say that your idea of 'market' fees may be different than my idea of 'market' fees. To wit: if I have an office of, say, 10 appraisers, and I've got the system sufficiently efficient to allow each appraiser to competently perform 10 appraisals a week. Let's also say that Appraiser Joe is a one-man shop and, as he has to perform ALL roles (accounting, marketing, appraiser, set up person, HR, etc.), he can only manage to do 5 appraisals a week. His idea of a 'living' (or 'market') fee might be different than the guy who can do 10 of them.

I'm in the minority, I know, but I personally don't agree with the VA system of allowing government to 'set' fees. They're not market fees and the folks that are hurt by this system are the veterans who have to pay above market for their services. I guess I'm a proponent of allowing appraisers to charge whatever fee they believe accommodates their lifestyle and volume expectations. For some folks that might be $300 a file. For some folks that might be $650 a file. Neither is right or wrong and each are acting in their own self interest.

 

[Doug Wegener]

I have not personally done one. However, I am now preparing myself to do so. It looks to me that it is going to take time and lots of it to be ready for the UAD 3.6. In the meantime (except for the easiest of assignments) I am telling clients this: " Due the mandatory deadline for the 3.6 form in November, I can no longer accept any complex assignment while I train as it takes time and lots of it to prepare. I cannot maintain a normal workload and prepare for these 3.6 assignments"------------I am past the point where I care if I lose clients and I am turning down jobs left and right. The reality is that if I don't prepare for the 3.6 I will be out of work anyway...... In my eyes it is better to tell them I cannot do the work now than be forced to tell them I cannot due their assignments in November. They either understand that or they don't. I am past caring if they do or do not understand.

 

[Vermonter]

Officially complete ONE 3.6 for a long time client and they just told me they're two weeks out before they will be ordering them consistently. Apparently the person that was training them on underwriting 3.6 reports quit and they haven't replaced them yet. Which probably means I won't see what I did wrong for a while. Another local bank just sent out an email asking everyone to update their fee schedule in Mercury Network because they will be ordering 3.6 next week.

Didn't have the mobile app to use, so just printed out the checklist and did it all manually. Knew the first one would be extremely tedious and wasn't wrong, but do see a way to template much of the report. At least for most of the properties I come across. All in took me almost 2 full days to complete, but most of it was trial and error figuring out what goes where. Like couldn't figure out why "levels in unit" was stuck on 1 forever until I saw the "add level" button on the right.

The biggest hurdle is how 3.6 is an entirely different workflow than the 1004. 28 years of doing things the same way isn't easy to forget and it throws mental blocks throughout the entire process. It's little weird things like determining site value while entering subject details. That's always something I've done at a completely different place in the workflow so it's one of many stumbling points in the process. Pics sprinkled in thruout is kinda annoying too. I usually go from doing all the pics to all the sketch, to all the comps (site value comps included), etc.

Did notice some glitches here and there with Total. Sketch data doesn't seem to transfer in which is ridiculous. Tabbing thru fields you want to leave blank sometimes selects features. Don't love that since I prefer keyboard use over mouse. No smartadjust. The ability to change a field isn't always obvious and the guidance is missing. It would be nice to click on any non-active field and see info/guidance on the right.

Also why doesn't the form fill the screen? The gray blank space takes up more space than the form-




My list of complaints goes on, but it's not insurmountable. Learning curve is STEEP and the first few (dozen) are gonna suck. Quote your fees and turn times accordingly.

 

[chad hampton]

Why would it take more than 45-60 minutes to write up an opinion of value?

 

[Sadie]

Officially complete ONE 3.6 for a long time client and they just told me they're two weeks out before they will be ordering them consistently. Apparently the person that was training them on underwriting 3.6 reports quit and they haven't replaced them yet. Which probably means I won't see what I did wrong for a while. Another local bank just sent out an email asking everyone to update their fee schedule in Mercury Network because they will be ordering 3.6 next week.

Didn't have the mobile app to use, so just printed out the checklist and did it all manually. Knew the first one would be extremely tedious and wasn't wrong, but do see a way to template much of the report. At least for most of the properties I come across. All in took me almost 2 full days to complete, but most of it was trial and error figuring out what goes where. Like couldn't figure out why "levels in unit" was stuck on 1 forever until I saw the "add level" button on the right.

The biggest hurdle is how 3.6 is an entirely different workflow than the 1004. 28 years of doing things the same way isn't easy to forget and it throws mental blocks throughout the entire process. It's little weird things like determining site value while entering subject details. That's always something I've done at a completely different place in the workflow so it's one of many stumbling points in the process. Pics sprinkled in thruout is kinda annoying too. I usually go from doing all the pics to all the sketch, to all the comps (site value comps included), etc.

Did notice some glitches here and there with Total. Sketch data doesn't seem to transfer in which is ridiculous. Tabbing thru fields you want to leave blank sometimes selects features. Don't love that since I prefer keyboard use over mouse. No smartadjust. The ability to change a field isn't always obvious and the guidance is missing. It would be nice to click on any non-active field and see info/guidance on the right.

Also why doesn't the form fill the screen? The gray blank space takes up more space than the form-

View attachment 111676


My list of complaints goes on, but it's not insurmountable. Learning curve is STEEP and the first few (dozen) are gonna suck. Quote your fees and turn times accordingly.

We have our issues with 3.6. The lenders do too.

I have completed a couple of the 3.6 reports just for myself-I completed the 2.6 for a client, then did it as a 3.6. From the logicalness of the report standpoint, it sucks. The 2.6 and all versions before went in a logical sequence, kind of like an upside down triangle. After the address, etc, You described the market, the neighborhood, then the subject, then you went to the nitty gritty of adjusting for individual features of the subject. Then putting a number (or range) on the property. The report leads you to the rationale for your MVE. The 3.6, there is no focus its all just thrown on the report in a random illogical manner. It makes no sense. Its hard to follow the logic of how you got to your MVE. Just kind of throwing stuff on the form in any old way.

Before: This is the general market, this is the subject's neighborhood/market, this is the subject and here are the comparables property. And here is my MVE. See attached for exhibits.

3.6: This is the site, here is disaster mitigation, here is the sketch, here is the exterior of the subject, here is the interior of the subject, here is the quality and condition of the subject, here is HBU, here is the market, (then the 2 page minimum grid). Photos sprinkled all through this.

I can't think of anyone is a good idea. The implementation has been hurried and ill thought out. Yes we have known about this change for years, but when did work actually begin on this? Not the 'concept of a plan', but the actual work? Because the software companies couldn't start their implementation until F/F figured their part out.

 

[HVNY]

Still think not one of these things has been delivered yet.