Awning Windows in Bedrooms

[finchshannon]

I am hoping to get your expert opinions and/or past experience! I have been renting a 2 bedroom home in Michigan for the last 8 years and I plan on purchasing it in the next couple of months using an FHA loan. The windows in both bedrooms are awning style windows. They use a crank at the bottom sill to open and are hinged at the top of the window so only the bottoms actually open outwards. The hardware arms that extend the windows outward are in the middle. The bottom of the windows are 58 inches from the floor (4'10"). I don't believe these would meet bedroom egress standards, but I may be poorly interpreting what I've read on the subject so far. Would this type of issue typically be noted in an FHA inspection and would this be a show stopper or affect the ability to get a loan for the home? Thank you in advance for any insight.

 

[Mark K]

I don't believe these would meet CURRENT bedroom egress standards, but I may poorly interpreting what I've read on the subject so far.

It sounds like they don't meet current standards but they likely met the standards when the house was built. Older homes don't have to meet all current codes to qualify for a loan. Most appraisers don't know all of the codes anyway.

I have the same windows (not that high from the floor level) in my house and bedrooms. They are 50 yr. old Andersen crank out awning thermopane windows that are still in good condition. Most awning windows have a release on the bars that push the window outwards so the window pane can be extended completely horizontal allowing for egress.

I don't do FHA anymore but there are hundreds, maybe thousands, of houses in this area built in the 50's and 60's with bedroom windows that don't meet current code and there's never been a problem with FHA (or any other) mortgages due to the windows. I'm sure someone that currently does FHA will chime in with more info.

 

[finchshannon]

It sounds like they don't meet current standards but they likely met the standards when the house was built. Older homes don't have to meet all current codes to qualify for a loan. Most appraisers don't know all of the codes anyway.

I have the same windows (not that high from the floor level) in my house and bedrooms. They are 50 yr. old Andersen crank out awning thermopane windows that are still in good condition. Most awning windows have a release on the bars that push the window outwards so the window pane can be extended completely horizontal allowing for egress.

I don't do FHA anymore but there are hundreds, maybe thousands, of houses in this area built in the 50's and 60's with bedroom windows that don't meet current code and there's never been a problem with FHA (or any other) mortgages due to the windows. I'm sure someone that currently does FHA will chime in with more info.

Thanks for your input, Mark. I'll have to see if these windows have the release like you suggested above just for my own knowledge...I wouldn't have even thought of that! One confusing point for me, which you touched on, is do the current IRC standards apply to older homes or is it just new builds and remodels. I read as much as I could on the topic and it seems very subjective depending on the FHA appraiser/inspector.

 

[Mark K]

Thanks for your input, Mark. I'll have to see if these windows have the release like you suggested above just for my own knowledge...I wouldn't have even thought of that! One confusing point for me, which you touched on, is do the current IRC standards apply to older homes or is it just new builds and remodels. I read as much as I could on the topic and it seems very subjective depending on the FHA appraiser/inspector.

Building codes are not retroactive, i.e., you don't have to update a house to current codes when you sell it. There are a few specific items like smoke detectors, CO2 detectors, hand rails on stairs and rails on decks, to name a few items that might be called out on an appraisal but overall, the structure generally does not have to be updated.

There may be an over-zealous appraiser that would call your windows a health and safety issue that requires remediation but most have enough common sense to realize that windows like this are common in that age of home. I would usually note in the report comments that the windows don't meet current code but that they have no effect on the typical buyer for the area and, hence, no adverse effect on market value.

 

[finchshannon]

Building codes are not retroactive, i.e., you don't have to update a house to current codes when you sell it. There are a few specific items like smoke detectors, CO2 detectors, hand rails on stairs and rails on decks, to name a few items that might be called out on an appraisal but overall, the structure generally does not have to be updated.

There may be an over-zealous appraiser that would call your windows a health and safety issue that requires remediation but most have enough common sense to realize that windows like this are common in that age of home. I would usually note in the report comments that the windows don't meet current code but that they have no effect on the typical buyer for the area and, hence, no adverse effect on market value.

This is very helpful! I will probably end up redoing the windows when I buy the home, but from what you describe above, it shouldn't put a wrench in the purchasing process which is what I was worried about. Thank you again for all your insight!!

 

[Tru Red]

Too many appraisers think they are building inspectors or contractors. Appraisers provide an opinion of value, not building code interpretations.

I know others will disagree but it sounds like it would pass for FHA most anyday of the week.

 

[Tom D]

i love those windows, cause you can leave them open on a rainy day, and normally not see thru. next to that, they certainly aren't air tight if you have a cold winter, even with the extras plate glass to cover the inside. shouldn't be a problem with FHA if you can get out thru them in a fire. i see them in our levittown high up on the wall, horizontal. dem i'm not sure if you could get out before the smoke kill you.
as far as what you like. fine if you have good weather all the time, but that's why you don't see them much anymore with the newer, better R value windows. i got R7 windows for the front of the house, was worth the money.

 

[glenn walker]

You should be fine