Below grade bedrooms?

[sandpiperapp]

I have a 17x25 building on a corner of Sutter Ave. One level fully above grade has a LR, Kitchen and bath. Lower level that is fully below grade on the west side, property was dug out to form a courtyard on the Sutter ave side, and is above grade on the east and south side has three bedrooms and a half bath.

So there are no above grade bedrooms. VA says they have no requirement for bedrooms. Lender says they will lend if bedrooms are"legal conforming per zoning AND there is a demonstrated marketability".

I cannot find any reference to above grade or below grade requirement for bedrooms in the NYC building Code.

Anybody have any insight?

I was able to find a couple of sales of 450 sf and 550 sf. but they both had above grade bedrooms.

Even if the building code allows below grade bedrooms, how am I going to be able to demonstrate proven marketability?

 

[CANative]

The below grade room count protocol for GSEs and FHA is more of a reporting requirement than a development requirement.

What would the market think about this property that has a bedroom with portions partially below a grade?

 

[sandpiperapp]

I have never had a home without at least one bedroom above grade.

In this part of Brooklyn, even illegal basement apartments below grade rent to someone.

I have no history of someone willing to invest money to become a homeowner willing to live in only below grade bedroom space.

This buyer is willing, but do they represent the "typical buyer"?

I also need to find out if NYC considers these rooms as bedrooms.

 

[HF Mudd]

Department of Buildings recently put out a "fact sheet"

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/downloads/pdf/illegal_conversion_factsheet.pdf

"Examples of illegal conversions include:

...

Adding an apartment in the basement, attic or garage without obtaining approval or permits from the Department of Buildings..."

If you pm me the address, I'll see what I can find out.

 

[The Warrior Monk]

In a case like this I would want to see the Certificate of Occupancy and/or Compliance (if applicable).

Typically for a below-grade room to be legal it must have two points of ingress/egress. A common situation by me is to have one interior access and one exterior access for each room (bathrooms typically excluded). The exterior access for bedrooms is often in the form of a large window which one can easily pass through, and/or a ladder leading to the ground level is needed. I believe these requirements have their basis in the state building code, which may be made more restrictive locally.

 

[sandpiperapp]

Department of Buildings recently put out a "fact sheet"

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/downloads/pdf/illegal_conversion_factsheet.pdf

"Examples of illegal conversions include:

...

Adding an apartment in the basement, attic or garage without obtaining approval or permits from the Department of Buildings..."

If you pm me the address, I'll see what I can find out.

This is not an additional apartment. The house is designed upside down. LR, Kit, and Bath on the main level above grade. Bedrooms are on a lower level that is below grade on one side, above grade in the front because the property was dug out, and above grade in the rear. there is also another basement level that is not finished and it is fully below grade.

I have run into an upside down design in the Hamptons when people put the common rooms on the second floor and the bedrooms on the first floor when they are trying to take advanatage of a potential view, but both levels are always above grade.

Here the front of the building was dug out to give the appearance of being above grade, but it is definitely below street level. Can finished space below grade be considered bedrooms by the NYC building dept?

 

[SouthShore]

Back in the Very old days of CHUMS (prior to the opening of the panel) this was a Appraisers Call. I have seen this scenario many times over specifically in the Boroughs like say the North Mt Olivet Cemetery Section of Middle Village/Maspeth with A2's above being LR,DR & Kit and than below having 2/3 Bedrooms half above half below. So for years I have gone with it being GLA. This is no different of a issue/problem than in a Mountain Area with main living area being above.

 

[Mike Kennedy]

I have a 17x25 building on a corner of Sutter Ave. One level fully above grade has a LR, Kitchen and bath. Lower level that is fully below grade on the west side, property was dug out to form a courtyard on the Sutter ave side, and is above grade on the east and south side has three bedrooms and a half bath.

So there are no above grade bedrooms. VA says they have no requirement for bedrooms. Lender says they will lend if bedrooms are"legal conforming per zoning AND there is a demonstrated marketability".

I cannot find any reference to above grade or below grade requirement for bedrooms in the NYC building Code.

Anybody have any insight?

I was able to find a couple of sales of 450 sf and 550 sf. but they both had above grade bedrooms.

Even if the building code allows below grade bedrooms, how am I going to be able to demonstrate proven marketability?

FILL IN THE HOUSE #

http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/bispi00.jsp

AND
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/html/bis/bis.shtml

AND
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/html/development/find.shtml

 

[HF Mudd]

The subject dwelling is located in an area where the currently below grade bedrooms were not below grade when built (for those appraisers familiar with this area, it's between Linden Blvd & South Conduit Ave just over the Kings/Queens county line).

I'm extremely familiar with the subject market (I live about 1/2 mile away) but the last appraisal I did in this submarket was in 2006, a 2 family dwelling with a full unit below grade but not below ground. I had 2 comparable sales with a similar setup; the subject and both comparables with below grade units had CO's which allowed below grade living areas.

The subject does not have a CO (not unusual as it pre-dates the requirement for a CO as it was built circa 1920), but based on the building permit, which notes the floors as bas and 001 (cel would be the designation for below grade non living space) I would conclude that the bedroom location is legal.

 

[CANative]

Kind of like this (Drew Street I think)?