CEA Designation...

[Artyman1200]

"Certified Equipment Appraiser"

Just curious if anyone knows of the demand and income potential connected with this designation. I've visited the AMEA website and it seems like a pretty big commitment to get the designation. It looks like a form of specialization to me. Besides the minimum 5 years of experience required, you have be with a firm that is a member of the Machinery Dealers National Association (which I'm not). I don't have any experience with machinery and equipment, so it probably wouldn't make sense to pursue. I am currently a commercial trainee. There are only two of these guys in Tennessee, that are posted on their website anyway. Does anyone here have the designation or know if it's worth going after?

 

[Sheikh Yerbouti]

Daniel,

Check out the American Society of Appraisers (appraisers.org). ASA has several disciplines, one of which is Machinery and Technical Specialties. The requirements for an ASA designation are fairly rigorous, but I think would be more useful and certainly more recognized. The educational curriculum is excellent, and you don't need experience to start the educational program. Many members who specialize in industrial properties have dual ASA designations in Real Property and MTS. Machinery and equipment appraisal can be very lucrative. Specialties within the discipline include aircraft and marine surveying.

 

[Stephen J. Vertin MAI]

This is an interesting topic to me. I would agree with Dave. The only designation I recognize is ASA. I have seriously though about taking the courses; however, it would be impossible for me to put anything more on my plate at this point in my life. I need to hire someone but that is another subject.

I have been interested in this subject because about 10 or 15 years ago I interviewed with a company in Chicago who did tax work only. They valued both real estate and FF&E. I had lunch with the General Partner, who seemed like a very sincere man, who claimed a commercial appraiser with an ASA, in certain endeavors, could knock down about $250,000 a year at his firm. I was making south of that at the time and thought the money sounded great. However, it involved 75 percent travel. Further I really wanted to go on my own and the 75 percent travel pushed my wife in support of staring my own company. I am glad I did and really have never regretted the decision but the money sounded very attractive. Further I have worked with these guys and they really do not do a lot of things different from RE appraisers. Cost figures, income figures, depreciation and such. Plus I already do a lot of business value work while appraising various things like golf courses, hospitals, nursing homes, etc.

I always though it would not take much brain drain to learn the FF&E side and it would not entail that many new concepts. I may be wrong you really never know until you actually do the chore but it looked similar. Further many of the reports I have read were basically depreciated cost. I would love to hear from someone who has crossed over either way.

Finally, I have clients that ask periodically if I do FF&E type work (rather than the occasional restaurant) but not enough to really seek out more information on the subject. This leads me to wonder where clients would come from and how would you attract them. That is the part that sounds like a lot of work to me. More so than simply obtaining the designation or learning the process.

Steve Vertin

Steve Vertin

 

[Artyman1200]

Dave,

I appreciate your response. Maybe you could address some of the issues in Stephen's post. What are some typical fees and how do the reports compare to real estate appraisals? How long might an appraisal take to complete? How difficult is it to drum up business?

I've looked at the ASA website. It seems it would take a minimum of 5 years of full-time appraisal experience to become an Accredited Senior Appraiser (ASA) on top of the 4 Principles of Valuation (POV) classes required for your specific discipline. The classes don't bother me. The experience is the kicker. When they say "5 years full-time experience", does that mean any experience, or discipline specific experience?

My biggest concern is the commitment. I'm not looking to appraise machinery and equipment for a living. Obviously, those fully commited to that industry will be the best, but I enjoy the real estate too much. I would simply like to have the designation so I could offer it to clients if and when they needed it. Of course, $250,000/yr is nothing to laugh at.

 

[Sheikh Yerbouti]

I can't answer some of your questions, since I don't do M&E myself. I don't know fees, but if they are anything like most other disciplines, they are way better than real estate appraisal fees (why don't we value our time and effort as much as the other disciplines?). Time to produce a report is mainly a function of the size of the job-are you doing a small medical practice, or a large manufacturing plant? My auld man has dabbled in M&E appraisal. We once toured an evaporative cooler manufacturing plant in Phoenix. The appraisal was to include M&E and the real estate. We quoted $30,000, didn't get the job. I know of some M&E folks who will do one or two pieces of construction equipment for $500, others who won't get out of bed for less than 10K. The ones making the really big bux are usually working for large national firms, or they specialize in certain industries like petrochemical or railroads. A lot of them work for large banks doing leasing of things like rail cars, aircraft, heavy equipment, etc. BofA does a lot of this.

I took the first two M&E courses from ASA back in the eighties. The classes were interesting, but I, like you, enjoy real estate, so I never pursued it. I just don't really have a knack for machinery; I was inspecting a high-rise yesterday, and the HVAC equipment looked pretty intimidating. Had to ask the super a lot of questions.

Getting an ASA designation is a substantial commitment, so if you'e looking to do this part time, I would question the cost-benefit. But then maybe you would find that M&E is where you really belong. Who knows.

ASA has some textbooks on MTS (M&E) appraising for sale on its website. It might be worth it just to get one and see if it interests you enough to pursue further.

The five years of experience for the ASA designation is discipline specific. But there are firms that hire entry level people, so it is possible to get the experience, just not very easy, kind of like trying to get into real estate appraising in the current environment.

Hope this helps!