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Converted Attic Space

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mm555

Freshman Member
Joined
May 22, 2012
Professional Status
General Public
State
Oregon
Hello,
My husband and I are considering a FSBO property that has a converted attic space. The attic space is fully converted and matches the quality of the rest of the house (carpet, paint, newer windows etc...). The problem is the sellers are including this space in the total square footage of the house (a difference of 615 square feet) and based on what we have read about standards it does not meet livable space standards. The highest part of the ceiling is 6 feet 10 inches. About 1/3 of the room is under the level portion of 6'10" ceiling (which is basically the middle strip of the room), the remaining 2/3 of the room is under the sloping sides which slope from the 6'10 down to 3-4 feet height of the walls (I hope I'm explaining this well enough?).

Doesn't half of the room need to have ceiling height of 7 feet at least to be considered livable square footage?

We don't discredit that this room adds something to the house, but we aren't sure it should be thought of as the same as the rest of the square footage of the house--cost wise.

The room has a built in wall heater that is not hooked up, but is not vented for heat/cooling otherwise. There is a fan to the roof to draw the heat out of the attic space. There's a staircase from the kitchen into this space and a window at the end of the room.

We live in Oregon if that matters.

This is my first time posting here so hope this is in the right spot on the forum!
Thanks!
MM
 
There are two issues:

- Measurement by ANSI standards would require

For a room to be included in the square footage calculation, the floor located under sloping ceilings must have a clearance of at least 5 feet; further at least one half of the square footage in the room must have ceilings of at least 7 feet in height.

http://krec.ky.gov/legal/legal docs/calc_sqfootage.pdf

- Also if the space was not finished under a permit, then it should be considered separately as to value, based on how the local market treats unpermitted space.
 
Where in Oregon and which governing Municipality?
 
Hello,
My husband and I are considering a FSBO property that has a converted attic space. The attic space is fully converted and matches the quality of the rest of the house (carpet, paint, newer windows etc...). The problem is the sellers are including this space in the total square footage of the house (a difference of 615 square feet) and based on what we have read about standards it does not meet livable space standards. The highest part of the ceiling is 6 feet 10 inches. About 1/3 of the room is under the level portion of 6'10" ceiling (which is basically the middle strip of the room), the remaining 2/3 of the room is under the sloping sides which slope from the 6'10 down to 3-4 feet height of the walls (I hope I'm explaining this well enough?).

Doesn't half of the room need to have ceiling height of 7 feet at least to be considered livable square footage?

We don't discredit that this room adds something to the house, but we aren't sure it should be thought of as the same as the rest of the square footage of the house--cost wise.

The room has a built in wall heater that is not hooked up, but is not vented for heat/cooling otherwise. There is a fan to the roof to draw the heat out of the attic space. There's a staircase from the kitchen into this space and a window at the end of the room.

We live in Oregon if that matters.

This is my first time posting here so hope this is in the right spot on the forum!
Thanks!
MM

The area MAY have some value, but your description as a "converted attic" would certainly not qualify as GLA if I was appraising it.

If I were considering buying this house, I would compare it to houses with similar GLA as the house itself, and give the converted attic area little if any value in my offer.

The seller has a price they are looking to get for the property, so concentrate on that opposed to fighting about GLA with them.

Good luck.
 
Technically you are correct about the ceiling heights. From a valuation POV it depends upon how these spaces are accepted in your market. In some markets, the entire area would be included as GLA, in others, not at all. In my market, it could go either way. Your appraiser may, or may not choose to include this area as GLA.

However, from a valuation standpoint, I don't think it will make much difference. There is a contributory value to this space irregardless of whether it is considered to be GLA or not.
 
The answer to the question will depend on local regulations and local market standards. What is considered normal and acceptable to one market area may not be acceptable to other. Also, if the attic space is above the second level of the home, there may be specific safety regulations in place (ingress/egress requirements, stairs on the exterior of the home to this level, sprinkler system requirements, etc.) that must be met for it to be considered legal living space.
 
Do you like this house? Are you buying it as an investment or as a home?
 
OK, we didn't really ask the right question the first time, so lets try again though the replys did help a lot. First, the house is in Eugene OR. The attic space was done by the previous owners and we doubt there are any permits (not 100% sure) and then more work was done by the current owners. They put in a air conditioner that's vented out the down stairs bathroom vent or something like that and he also resealed the shower(it does have a full bathroom). He also admits the space doesn't heat or cool down very well, but it does look pretty good...but done to code. Oh, and there is no fan to pull heat out of the space, the wife misunderstood that one.
The space is certainly respectable and fits with the rest of the house well but we're not going to offer them GLA price for the space. So the questions are:
1. Any idea what might happen in an inspection? Will all appraisers say no it's not GLA or might some say close enough it looks good?
2. We may want to sell someday. We would hate to pay for GLA and then try to sell it and the new appraiser tells us we can't sell it as GLA. Could it happen?
3. Are there any other red flags of potential problems we should watch out for concerning that space.
4. We have no idea what's a fair price to pay for finished space. If anyone has any suggestions we would love to hear them though we know that isn't what you guys do and, of course, we would only take them as suggestions.

We've picked out a lot of the answers to these questions from the posts already put down but I just wanted to be a little more clear. Oh, we would be buying the house for us not as an investment.

-Thanks!
 
OK, we didn't really ask the right question the first time, so lets try again (clip)So the questions are:
1. Any idea what might happen in an inspection? Will all appraisers say no it's not GLA or might some say close enough it looks good?
2. We may want to sell someday. We would hate to pay for GLA and then try to sell it and the new appraiser tells us we can't sell it as GLA. Could it happen?
3. Are there any other red flags of potential problems we should watch out for concerning that space.
4. We have no idea what's a fair price to pay for finished space. If anyone has any suggestions we would love to hear them though we know that isn't what you guys do and, of course, we would only take them as suggestions.

We've picked out a lot of the answers to these questions from the posts already put down but I just wanted to be a little more clear. Oh, we would be buying the house for us not as an investment. -Thanks!

Unfortunately multiple appraisers in your area are likely to handle it different ways: Not GLA but considers it somewhere on form/grid; includes it in GLA (I don't do this as I use ANSI as a guideline); Doesn't include in GLA and doesn't consider elsewhere either (still not right). And it is just as likely to happen differently when you buy and when you sell. (Risk)

NOW a competent appraiser will try extremely hard to find at least one comp with somewhat similar attic space (or possibly other contributory "non-GLA" above grade space).
IF it was considered using comparable(s) with similar attics (or other) area then the whole discussion is moot (the feature has been bracketed).

If it was not permitted it may or may not contribute significantly to value depending on code compliance enforcement in your area (my take anyway), and if it could be subsequently approved. There is still quite a bit of older "legacy" un-permitted space in my area. If it was not done in the last 10 - 15 years, the city/building officials are not likely going to "red tag" it. (our county has only had permitting in the past 30+ years, and it was loosely enforced for a while). As such some value is generally recognized in this market (for functional space.) But it is a risk for you to consider. (might have to "re-remodel" to get up to code)

A "rule if thumb" price per sf doesn't exist/won't work. It is simply "additional contributory value" to the "whole" to some degree to be determined (or not in the extreme). At least this is my take.

Bob in CO
 
OK, we didn't really ask the right question the first time, so lets try again though the replys did help a lot. First, the house is in Eugene OR. The attic space was done by the previous owners and we doubt there are any permits (not 100% sure) and then more work was done by the current owners.

3. Are there any other red flags of potential problems we should watch out for concerning that space.

-Thanks!

Start here prior to making ANY decision:

http://www.eugene-or.gov/portal/ser...trol=SetCommunity&CommunityID=225&PageID=-225
 
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