Crawl space under old enclosed porch

[Swiguy]

I am doing an FHA appraisal on a 1950’s home that has an enclosed porch that was finished into living area. It has crawl space foundation but no access & not vented. I called for a contractor to inspect and to create crawl space opening and install vents. Upon inspection the contractor discovered that the crawl space was only 12'' tall & stated that there is no viable way to create an access. This circumstance prevents me from meeting HUD guidelines to do a head and shoulders inspection of the area. Contractor, lender & realtors all want me to state that it is not actually a crawl space because it is so small in depth. My opinion is that it is a crawl but not one that meets MPR. Since HUD is closed, I cannot get any feedback from them. Does anyone have an opinion on this or come up against this situation?

 

[Amy Perkins]

I would expect that a "crawl space" would be large enough to "crawl" into. So, no, it is not a crawl space.

Due to the dirt level in the open space under the deck, inspection underneath was not physically possible because there is only 12 inches of clearance and no opening to view the height of the open area under the deck. Upon inspection the contractor discovered that the crawl space was only 12'' tall & stated that there is no viable way to create an access. Due to the new information provided by the contractor to the appraiser the appraiser has determined that access and vents are not necessary because it is not deep enough to crawl under and is no longer considered a crawl space.

Is the conversion to living area legal? There always seems to be a problem of water intrusion where the roof line meets the enclosed porches when it is not done right.

 

[Papoua Jose]

I would expect that a "crawl space" would be large enough to "crawl" into. So, no, it is not a crawl space.

Out of the three choices for foundation: crawlspace, slab or basement what would you call it?

 

[ctapraser]

I am doing an FHA appraisal on a 1950’s home that has an enclosed porch that was finished into living area. It has crawl space foundation but no access & not vented. I called for a contractor to inspect and to create crawl space opening and install vents. Upon inspection the contractor discovered that the crawl space was only 12'' tall & stated that there is no viable way to create an access. This circumstance prevents me from meeting HUD guidelines to do a head and shoulders inspection of the area. Contractor, lender & realtors all want me to state that it is not actually a crawl space because it is so small in depth. My opinion is that it is a crawl but not one that meets MPR. Since HUD is closed, I cannot get any feedback from them. Does anyone have an opinion on this or come up against this situation?

The crawl space must have either an interior or exterior access. The access to
the crawl space should be clear. Examine the crawl space for inadequate
access (minimum entry of the head and shoulders). Check the distance from
the bottom of floor joists to ground. Space should be adequate for
maintenance and repair. A minimum distance of 18 inches from the ground to​

the bottom of the joists is highly recommended but not mandated.

That said, I would not consider the crawl space of a converted closed porch part of the main foundation. Note if there are any FHA issues with the main foundation, describe the closed porch/converted room and let the DE decide.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

If the inspector can see that it is 12" tall, why is it not available to you?

 

[ctapraser]

If the inspector can see that it is 12" tall, why is it not available to you?

Really, you want him to turn his head sideways and wiggle in?

 

[Scott R Marshall]

It is what it is. Personally, I would discuss it exactly as you have described. I would check both slab and crawlspace on the foundation. I would explain the crawlspace is under an converted porch. I would explain the steps taken to gain access. I would also probably check the "as is" box and place the burden of requiring the inspection solely on the DEU.

Or, conversely, you can tell your client that you need to contact the mothership, which is currently out of orbit until the cabal gets their act together.

 

[Mountain Man]

Is the addition really GLA? I rarely consider enclosed porches to be GLA. Very, very few are finished out as well, few have heat and air conditioning, or functional utility as a family room. I usually call them sun rooms or enclosed porches.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

Really, you want him to turn his head sideways and wiggle in?

Well....how did the "inspector" do it???? I imagine he stuck a flashlight under there and LOOKED...what I would do.

As for "Head and Shoulders" ... I always thought it meant the attic, not the crawlspace.

 

[TEL2002]

Stick your camera in the hole the contractor used and start snapping pictures. Bet you will get some good ones you can use. Might also tell you if there is wood rot, an infestation of some kind, insulation under the floor, etc.

Wouldn't it probably be a pier foundation?