Crawl space waterproofing

[hglenbetts]

I was just asked by a friend if she has created an issue for future FHA financing by having her crawl space waterproofed and sealed.

It seems the company REMOVED her vents and actually replaced them with cinder blocks that were mortared into place. Then, the walls and dirt floor were covered with a thick mill plastic. She states that the humidity is increasing and she is concerned about what will happen if she tries to refi with FHA.

I told her I would note the "upgrades", and the lack of venting, plus include photos and let the underwriter deal with it.

Anyone else seen this "Improvement"? Would you handle it differently?

 

[incognito]

I told her I would note the "upgrades", and the lack of venting, plus include photos and let the underwriter deal with it.

That is exactly how I would handle it!

 

[Mr Rex]

Sealed crawlspaces have been incorporated into the building codes in some states. Done correctly, they eliminate many of the problems associated with typical "vented" crawlspaces. Some info for your perusal:



http://www.crawlspaces.org/


This company did the orignal research on sealed crawlspaces in NC and FL. The research was funded by a monthly surcharge on power bills.

 

[incognito]

Great information, Mr. Rex. I watched a couple of the videos, and I see these types of issues every week on older homes here in Florida. Thanks!

 

[Proactive]

I was just asked by a friend if she has created an issue for future FHA financing by having her crawl space waterproofed and sealed.

It seems the company REMOVED her vents and actually replaced them with cinder blocks that were mortared into place. Then, the walls and dirt floor were covered with a thick mill plastic. She states that the humidity is increasing and she is concerned about what will happen if she tries to refi with FHA.

I told her I would note the "upgrades", and the lack of venting, plus include photos and let the underwriter deal with it.

Anyone else seen this "Improvement"? Would you handle it differently?

Some areas of southern Michigan have high radon levels. Was this a radon mitigation system? Is radon prevalent in your friend's area? Sealing the crawl space so there is no ventilation could exacerbate a radon issue.

 

[Cigar]

As a builder I am hearing about this now, it was illegal up until recently; however. Building Science Corporation has been promoting them and they have now obtained approval under the latest IRC building code. The theory behind the approval is that the crawl space becomes part of the conditioned building envelope, and as such has to be conditioned like the rest of the home, so all HVAC must be connected to the crawl space. Personally I wouldn't do it, all that air (including mold spores and radon gas) must be recycled throughout the home potentially making the occupants ill, I guess it would be possible to install a separate HVAC system just for the crawl space, and if a customer demanded it that's the way I would insist on doing it for liability reasons.

Another thing to watch out for is the same principle is being applied to attics, sealing them up and conditioning them, this can void asphalt shingle warranties as the manufacturers require ventilation under the shingles, requiring a secondary ventilation system right under the shingles.

These sealed crawls and attics do make sense in hot humid climates where allowing the traditional cross ventilation with outside air can bring moisture into the crawl space or attic.

I'm talking building science and building codes, better check and see what FHA says.

 

[Mr Rex]

As a builder I am hearing about this now, it was illegal up until recently; however. Building Science Corporation has been promoting them and they have now obtained approval under the latest IRC building code. The theory behind the approval is that the crawl space becomes part of the conditioned building envelope, and as such has to be conditioned like the rest of the home, so all HVAC must be connected to the crawl space. Personally I wouldn't do it, all that air (including mold spores and radon gas) must be recycled throughout the home potentially making the occupants ill, I guess it would be possible to install a separate HVAC system just for the crawl space, and if a customer demanded it that's the way I would insist on doing it for liability reasons.

Another thing to watch out for is the same principle is being applied to attics, sealing them up and conditioning them, this can void asphalt shingle warranties as the manufacturers require ventilation under the shingles, requiring a secondary ventilation system right under the shingles.

These sealed crawls and attics do make sense in hot humid climates where allowing the traditional cross ventilation with outside air can bring moisture into the crawl space or attic.

I'm talking building science and building codes, better check and see what FHA says.

Actually, the crawl space is not conditioned and the crawlspace air is not intermingled with the interior air.

No humid air is allowed into the "system", thats the point of the "sealing".

 

[Cigar]

Actually, the crawl space is not conditioned and the crawlspace air is not intermingled with the interior air.

Then it's a code violation, without being part of the conditioned envelope it reverts to the code mandated ventilation requirement of 1/150th of the floor area, check the link above or R-409.5.

 

[incognito]

Then it's a code violation, without being part of the conditioned envelope it reverts to the code mandated ventilation requirement of 1/150th of the floor area, check the link above or R-409.5.

Do you know how everyone has their little pet peeves? I guess this is mine:


NOTE TO FHA APPRAISERS:

FHA DOES NOT REQUIRE CODE COMPLIANCE!!! Forget about code compliance. You are not the code police. Virtually no house but new ones comply to all codes. FHA would not lend on ANY house but a newly built one, if code compliance were required.

Another fine reason... :laugh:

 

[Cigar]

As far as codes go, a condition is still legal if it was legal when built (with a couple of exceptions like smoke detectors and safety glass), but if remodeled or altered that remolding or alteration must be to code. An example is that a 1950s home does not have code compliant sleeping room egress windows, that is legal as it stands, but if a bedroom was subsequently added, that bedroom, and only that bedroom, must have egress windows compliant with the code in effect at the time of the addition.

I agree with you that neither appraisers nor home inspectors shouldn't be citing code violations, if you cite one code violation, at law a customer has the reasonable expectation that you know all code requirements. So if FHA doesn't require code compliance don't go citing any illegalities, such as illegal additions, wiring, etc.