Don't confuse 'STORY' with 'Basement'

[VolcanoLvr]

Updates to the UAD reports will require greater precision to the Design/Style entry on the grid. This corresponds to the entry for STORY on report page 1.

As so often happens with GSE forms, there is seldom clear instruction for the desired entry, but the GSE's just 'expect' the appraiser to know what they want.

They don't define STORY. So I researched that from other sources, and now use the following statement in my reports to define this term. A STORY can include living space in a basement.

Use this if you want:

NUMBER OF STORIES IN DWELLING - EXPLANATION:
FannieMae/FreddieMac asks the appraiser to place a single numerical number on the report form page 1 to indicate the number of 'stories' in this dwelling, and in the Design/Style field on the grid page. Stories are horizontal finished living spaces, one on top of the others, in a dwelling. This home has finished living space in the basement. Therefore, for the purposes of this report, the number of 'stories' includes the basement, and the floor(s) above the basement.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

When I go into a large building, there may be 3 basement levels, but the number of stories includes only that above the ground....ground level is Story 1...

 

[VolcanoLvr]

With all due respect Terrel....you're talking about COMMERCIAL buildings.

The GSE forms are for RESIDENTIAL properties. "My" definition clearly states 'LIVING SPACE.'

In the case of residential properties where there is a basement without LIVING SPACE, I would agree that the basement would not be counted as a 'story.'

 

[sandpiperapp]

I do just residential and I do not treat finished basements as a story. There may be finished area, but it is not living area. It has to be above grade to be living area, IMO

 

[VolcanoLvr]

Sandpiper ...
Are you telling me your local real estate agents ignore finished living space in basements, and only report the upper floors (above grade) in the MLS for their living space number?

Out here, that space IS counted by the agents. That's why it's important not to confuse the definition of the two words - STORY and BASEMENT.

I did on-line research to figure out what a STORY is in building design. 'MY' definition concurs with what I learned.

As long as you define and tell the reader your basis for your opinion, nobody will seriously question it. Why? Because the GSE's don't provide any info. So if you say the basement living space is a STORY, you won't be challenged.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

Are you telling me your local real estate agents ignore finished living space in basements, and only report the upper floors (above grade) in the MLS for their living space number?

The good ones do. They identify a basement as a basement and differentiate them as unfinished or finished.

Every time I see an agent show the finished basement in the GLA, I see the price per SF set at the price per SF of a similar age condition dwelling and then watch it rot on the market for months.... like this one. 3 years, priced at $100 a SF, only to sell for what I had predicted prior to the listing. The agent insisted it was "worth" more and I said the basement will be discounted. Another agent refused to list it because the owners had come to believe that other agent was right. The refuser told me. "It's the basement. It's not that good...and this won't bring it." She actually retired before the house sold.

You can put lipstick on this pig all you want but it is a one story ranch with a walk out basement in back and on the right side.

 

[sandpiperapp]

I have always counted stories from above grade living space. I very rarely use MLS figures for living area. In this area, traditionally, most brokers talk about room and bedroom counts to describe the size of a house. Most brokers have no comprehension of "living area "
I just completed an appraisal on a new house where the broker included the garage area in his living area. When I questioned the difference between my actual measurements and his GLA he was very surprised to hear that garages are not to be included in living area

 

[sandpiperapp]

Plain and simple, as the appraiser, I say a basement, whether it has finished space or not, is not a story.

 

[VolcanoLvr]

Fine Sandpiper. Then say so in your report. Define STORY the way you want to, so that the reader will understand your perspective.

Without an explanation the reader will not know what it means.

But it tells me that you disagree that 'a horizontal living space above one another' is not a STORY. We are not defining a BASEMENT here .... we are defining what the word STORY means.

To respond to Terrel again ............ out here the agents DO treat the finished walk out basement as LIVING SPACE. Their square footage in the MLS INCLUDES this space. Remember, they are selling square footage to put furniture in and live in. So we appraisers have to be careful to research the property carefully (if it's a comp) and divide the STORIES appropriately on the form if one happens to also be a BASEMENT.

The definition of STORY does not relate specifically to value. It merely tells the reader what a STORY is .... horizontal living space.

Look it up. That's what you will find if you do the research and quit trying to shoehorn basement into story and then deny a finished basement can also be a STORY of horizontal living space.

By the way.....the definition I use (post #1) is only in my report when there are multiple STORIES in a dwelling that include a BASEMENT. If the subject property is a ONE STORY the definition is not in. If the dwelling has all STORIES above ground, I don't consider the need to include the definition because most people instinctively understand that all horizontal living space above grade counts as a STORY.

But ............. when the dwelling has horizontal living space in a finished basement, I do include the definition so that the reader will understand the context of the WORD as I define it for the purposes of the report.

 

[ctapraser]

Updates to the UAD reports will require greater precision to the Design/Style entry on the grid. This corresponds to the entry for STORY on report page 1.

As so often happens with GSE forms, there is seldom clear instruction for the desired entry, but the GSE's just 'expect' the appraiser to know what they want.

They don't define STORY. So I researched that from other sources, and now use the following statement in my reports to define this term. A STORY can include living space in a basement.

Use this if you want:

NUMBER OF STORIES IN DWELLING - EXPLANATION:
FannieMae/FreddieMac asks the appraiser to place a single numerical number on the report form page 1 to indicate the number of 'stories' in this dwelling, and in the Design/Style field on the grid page. Stories are horizontal finished living spaces, one on top of the others, in a dwelling. This home has finished living space in the basement. Therefore, for the purposes of this report, the number of 'stories' includes the basement, and the floor(s) above the basement.

If you are not including finished basement in the GLA or room count why confuse the issue and include the basment in the # of stories?

You may be over thinking this