Fee Surveys

[NC Appraising]

Want some SURVEYS, HERE YOU GO AMC's:

http://www.ourfamilyplace.com/homebuyer/appraisal.html
http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/316..._Appraisal.asp
*** http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r215...Appraisal-Cost ******



BEFORE THE HVCC!!!

http://library.hsh.com/read_article-hsh.asp?row_id=34
In June 2006, 79% of the lenders in our survey charged an up-front appraisal fee. The average amount charged was $331.
In June 2005, 75.7% of lenders surveyed charged an appraisal fee. The average amount charged was $318.
In December 2004, 78% of lenders surveyed charged an appraisal fee. The average amount charged was $315.
In June 2004, 77% of lenders surveyed charged an appraisal fee. The average amount charged was $314.
In December 2003, 81.1% of lenders surveyed charged an appraisal fee. The average amount charged was $310.
In June 2003, 85.4% of lenders surveyed charged an appraisal fee. The average amount charged was $309.
In September 2002, 81.4% of lenders surveyed charged an appraisal fee. The average amount charged was $309.
In February 2002, 80.6% of lenders surveyed this fee; the average amount was $310.
In September 2001, 86.1% of lenders surveyed this fee; the average amount was $312.
In September 2000, 81.4% of lenders charged this fee; the average amount was $305.



http://www.bankrate.com/finance/mortgages/texas-tops-2009-closing-cost-exclusive.aspx
In Bankrate's 2008 closing costs survey, the average appraisal cost $296. This year, the average appraisal cost $362. The culprit, according to appraisers, is something called the Home Valuation Code of Conduct, or HVCC.
The HVCC is the product of a legal settlement stemming from a lawsuit filed by New York's attorney general. As part of the settlement, the mortgage industry agreed to forbid mortgage brokers from choosing appraisers. The idea was to prevent brokers from pressuring appraisers into overvaluing houses so the loans could go through.


http://money.cnn.com/2004/03/22/pf/yourhome/closingcosts/index.htm
file, said Keith Gumbinger, vice president for HSH Associates.
Since you have an existing relationship, a "streamlined" process might be possible. That can save you a lot of extra paperwork and money on everything from application fees to appraisal fees.

Fee-ed Up?
Here are just some of the costs of closing on a mortgage.Fee

Average cost*

Application $272

Appraisal $310

 

[AnonApprsr]

Good work, it's pretty interesting how much they want to screw us.

 

[Mile High Trout]

This is sort of off topic. But the thread title is well aligned:

OREP 08-04-10 latest appraiser survey

http://www.workingre.com/workingre/customary-and-reasonable-making-your-case.html

 

[Mile High Trout]

Here is another one from within the month on the AF

http://www.feesurvey.com/

Post your links!

This particular survey comes from:

http://newsletter.appraisalbuzz.com...17fe5d67e9d68e22fd8af62d7070f&S=958&L=2&N=412

 

[Mike Kennedy]

CUSTOMARY AND REASONABLE FEES
Lenders and their agents shall compensate fee appraisers at a rate that is customary and reasonable for appraisal services performed in the market area of the property being appraised. Evidence for such fees may be established by objective third-party information, such as government agency fee schedules, academic studies, and independent private sector surveys. Fee studies shall exclude assignments ordered by known appraisal management companies.

http://www.feesurvey.com/

 

[Mike Kennedy]

Independent Alternative to Equitable, Non-AMC, "REASONABLE & CUSTOMARY FEES"

Subject: HOW TO BENCHMARK COMPETITIVE FEES

FOR DISCUSSION AND CONSIDERATION ............. yesterday I CHECKED OUT THE FHFA HOUSING purchase price APPRECIATION CALCULATOR. (link at bottom)

A HOUSE PURCHASED AT $305,000. FIRST QUARTER 2000..........NOW $584,000. "ESTIMATED VALUE" per FHFA.

I.E. 92% increase

2000
RE Broker commission at 4% 2000 on $305000= $12200.
L.O. commission at 1.25% orig fee on (LTV 80%) $244000= $ 3050.

per surveys posted by NC Appraisals (thank you) yesterday on A-FORUM.....(and the first set posted above)

http://appraisersforum.com/showpost.php?p=2018972&postcount=149

Median Lender Survey APPRAISAL Fee in 2000 = $305.00

Adjusted for the same Appreciation Factor as a Median SFR purchase per FHFA Calculator... would yield:

2010 MEDIAN SFR PURCHASE PRICE: $584,000.
RE broker 4% $23400.
L.O. originator 1.25% x 80% LTV = 5800. commission

2010 Median Appraisal Fee $584.

http://www.fhfa.gov/default.aspx?Pa...haseQtr=2000Q1&ValuationQtr=2010Q1&Price=$305

IMO, the 90 day window is open right now..........let's cut out all the meaningless discussions about AMC surveys reflecting AMC paid "fees" which are NOT permitted to be utilized to determine "customary and reasonable" fees per the definition contained in the New LAW.
.........

Other discussions on AF, and other blogs, and media articles proffer benchmarking fees against VA Fees as the prevailing "wisdom" spouted by some/many Appraisers........

I must disagree as even current VA fees at 400-450 have NOT been adjusted for SFR Appreciation factors during the past 10 years.

I feel it is HUGELY important to "get the word out" ........

p.s. Attorney closing fees have also DOUBLED in 10 years.

If you factor in a base of 6 hours for a "cookie cutter" at $584.....=$97./hour. using the FHFA appreciation formula applied to appraisal fees commensurate with SFR price appreciation (through 2006). Additional years may not increase that estimated Median due to the Bubble Burst.

IMO, there is absolutely no reason this "private survey formula" should not be utilized or, at the very least, thrown out for Exposure, Discussion, and Consideration by the New "Powers that Be".

Let's take the "politics" out of it - give the "Powers" the OBJECTIVE ammo to finally establish a methodology to establish an UNBIASED, Economics-based Realistic basis for a "Benchmark Customary and Reasonable" Fee which is then subject to negotiation based on Location and Complexity.

WHY should attorneys, agents, mbs, consumers, and and SOME AMCs who charge consumers 500-600 (GEE...I wonder where they got THAT Number from) benefit from said SFR Price Appreciation ...............

and Not Appraisers.???

Suggest the time to expose the Economic Truth is NOW - in public while the debate rages on .....and NO DECISION / POLICY has been arrived at by "the powers that be".

Instead of fighting over nickels and dimes and scraps from "the table" .........

Appraisers MUST demand a full, equitable, seat at the Table and be able to afford the Meal - exactly the same way all the other "Participants" can and DO.

Then deliver Quality, Credible, Appraisals - Ethically and Professionally or get the hell out of the Business.

 

[NC Appraising]

I find this interesting also. It's an old HUD statement: http://www.HUD.gov/offices/adm/hudcl...es/97-22ml.txt

FEES

FHA field offices will no longer establish maximum appraisal
fees. However, a lender's charge to the borrower for an
appraisal must be no more than the actual amount charged by and
paid to the appraiser, subject to the fee being reasonable and
customary for an appraisal in the area in which the property is
located. That fee may be included in the closing costs upon
which the mortgage is based. Lenders that utilize their own
staff appraiser may charge a fee to the mortgagor which does not
exceed that which is reasonable and customary in the area.
Lenders utilizing management firms that secure the appraisal on behalf of the lender may only charge the mortgagor the actual amount paid to and received by the appraiser, subject to the reasonable and customary cap. Lenders dealing with service providers which charge reasonable and customary fees but pay the appraiser less than they charge the lender may only have the mortgagor pay what was charged by and paid to the appraiser.

I think there is a hell of a lot of money that the AMC's and the lenders owe to the borrowers. Get out your check books. Class action lawsuit anyone. HUD 1?


I guess we now know why every AMC puts on their engagement letter "do not discuss the appraisal fee with the borrower" We are ripping them off and taking advantage of them. So please do not discuss the fees. :blush: PS, please do not tell HUD or FHA, thanks.

 

[Bearslide]

Independent Alternative to Equitable, Non-AMC, "REASONABLE & CUSTOMARY FEES"

Subject: HOW TO BENCHMARK COMPETITIVE FEES

FOR DISCUSSION AND CONSIDERATION ............. yesterday I CHECKED OUT THE FHFA HOUSING purchase price APPRECIATION CALCULATOR. (link at bottom)

A HOUSE PURCHASED AT $305,000. FIRST QUARTER 2000..........NOW $584,000. "ESTIMATED VALUE" per FHFA.

I.E. 92% increase

2000
RE Broker commission at 4% 2000 on $305000= $12200.
L.O. commission at 1.25% orig fee on (LTV 80%) $244000= $ 3050.

per surveys posted by NC Appraisals (thank you) yesterday on A-FORUM.....(and the first set posted above)

http://appraisersforum.com/showpost.php?p=2018972&postcount=149

Median Lender Survey APPRAISAL Fee in 2000 = $305.00

Adjusted for the same Appreciation Factor as a Median SFR purchase per FHFA Calculator... would yield:

2010 MEDIAN SFR PURCHASE PRICE: $584,000.
RE broker 4% $23400.
L.O. originator 1.25% x 80% LTV = 5800. commission

2010 Median Appraisal Fee $584.

http://www.fhfa.gov/default.aspx?Pa...haseQtr=2000Q1&ValuationQtr=2010Q1&Price=$305

IMO, the 90 day window is open right now..........let's cut out all the meaningless discussions about AMC surveys reflecting AMC paid "fees" which are NOT permitted to be utilized to determine "customary and reasonable" fees per the definition contained in the New LAW.
.........

Other discussions on AF, and other blogs, and media articles proffer benchmarking fees against VA Fees as the prevailing "wisdom" spouted by some/many Appraisers........

I must disagree as even current VA fees at 400-450 have NOT been adjusted for SFR Appreciation factors during the past 10 years.

I feel it is HUGELY important to "get the word out" ........

p.s. Attorney closing fees have also DOUBLED in 10 years.

If you factor in a base of 6 hours for a "cookie cutter" at $584.....=$97./hour. using the FHFA appreciation formula applied to appraisal fees commensurate with SFR price appreciation (through 2006). Additional years may not increase that estimated Median due to the Bubble Burst.

IMO, there is absolutely no reason this "private survey formula" should not be utilized or, at the very least, thrown out for Exposure, Discussion, and Consideration by the New "Powers that Be".

Let's take the "politics" out of it - give the "Powers" the OBJECTIVE ammo to finally establish a methodology to establish an UNBIASED, Economics-based Realistic basis for a "Benchmark Customary and Reasonable" Fee which is then subject to negotiation based on Location and Complexity.

WHY should attorneys, agents, mbs, consumers, and and SOME AMCs who charge consumers 500-600 (GEE...I wonder where they got THAT Number from) benefit from said SFR Price Appreciation ...............

and Not Appraisers.???

Suggest the time to expose the Economic Truth is NOW - in public while the debate rages on .....and NO DECISION / POLICY has been arrived at by "the powers that be".

Instead of fighting over nickels and dimes and scraps from "the table" .........

Appraisers MUST demand a full, equitable, seat at the Table and be able to afford the Meal - exactly the same way all the other "Participants" can and DO.

Then deliver Quality, Credible, Appraisals - Ethically and Professionally or get the hell out of the Business.

This is the best post in all the myriad threads about "customary and reasonable fees". Wake up, people. We are charged with forming a supportable opinon of value on the most expensive asset people own - and many are willing to settle for "surveys", "meetings" and whatever other nonsense is being put forth regarding our fees. What is being proposed is price fixing and for the life of me, I can't understand why so many are willing to go along with this.

I set my fees - clients either accept them or not. My dentist sets his fees, my doctor, my plumber, my mason, my mechanic, my vet, my attorney. I accept them or go elsewhere and get lesser service. Mike's last 3 paragraphs say it all.

 

[GCJim]

Adjusted for the same Appreciation Factor as a Median SFR purchase per FHFA Calculator... would yield:

2010 MEDIAN SFR PURCHASE PRICE: $584,000.
RE broker 4% $23400.
L.O. originator 1.25% x 80% LTV = 5800. commission

2010 Median Appraisal Fee $584.

$584 for a full 1004 with form 1004MC and extra comps feels about right to me, adjusting for inflation and the cost of living, rounded down to $550 for volume users.
(I'm still very wary of the 'idiot skippy factor' though. These are some REAL MORONS.)

 

[Scott Lanz]

I am with you Bear. Just when the industry appears to be losing an oversupply of appraisers a set fee comes into play. So many people have discussed how low fees couldn't sustain an appraiser, and they are probably accurate. I think this will bring back the "skippies" and increase the supply of appraisers.

The people that are happy with this model are most likely the ones that can't convince users of appraisal services that they are worth the fee they would like to charge.