Permanent Foundation

[OSU Beavers]

Is there any proof in writing as to what Fannie Mae considers a "Permanent foundation"? LO, UW and even appraisers are so conditioned to reject certain bad words on a report such as "piers", wood or metal "skirting". It seems all they want to see is a concrete perimeter stemwall and who cares what is behind it. As for HUD all they seem to care about are the tie-downs.

Which brings me to my dad’s situation. He got a 27' x 50' doublewide (paid cash) back in 1996 before I was a licensed appraiser. First he had a 30' x 55' six inch thick solid concrete slab with rebar poured with the electrical, water and sewer connections sticking out. If we had known about tie-downs back then he could have had J bolts sunk into the slab. The sections were wheeled in, set on drystacked concrete blocks with wood shims and skirted with T1-11 to match the siding. Vent holes were cut in some sections and the T1-11 skirting was calked at the top and bottom.

So now the T1-11 skirting is looking worn and he wants to replace it with something that will qualify for financing incase he wants to sell it. He is looking at $1,000’s to have a concrete block perimeter stemwall put around it, or $100’s to screw up some cement fiber board like Hardiplank.

As far as tie-downs, drilling into a 6” slab is not looking attractive right now. Then again he may have a buyer who wants to build their dream house on his five acres and would just remove the home anyway.

Any ideas for him?

PS: I read the Thread from 2003 which mostly stated that everyone is confused.

 

[Jo Ann Meyer Stratton]

For Fannie Mae, it is whatever local and state requires. For FHA it has to meet their Permanent Foundations Guide for Manufactured Housing which includes tie downs and a durable material for the perimeter enclosures. So start with your county, city and state. If the home is in compliance with all of them--market it as not available for FHA or buyer's costs/responsibility to have it retrofitted for FHA.

 

[OSU Beavers]

If the home is in compliance with all of them--market it as not available for FHA or buyer's costs/responsibility to have it retrofitted for FHA.

Thanks as always for your quick response Jo Ann. Some cities have requirements for conventional type perimeters, as for the State of Oregon, all they want are 4" thick concrete footing blocks for the piers to set on. A state building inspector once told me that they could have hay bale skirting for all he cared. My dad's home is in Jackson County and was set to code in 1996. I'll have to check to see if it had changed.

So many lenders call for a conventional concrete perimeter out of habit that it would be nice to have a paper stating that what he has is permanent.

Is Hardipanel or concrete fiberboard between the home and the full slab considered “a durable material for the perimeter enclosure” by HUD?

I did not understand your last sentence "market it as not available for FHA". In our market FHA plus a 6% seller concession at closing is the best way to get a quick sale on a manufactured home without waiting for someone with 10%-30% down, so he would be paying for the tie-downs if needed.

 

[Jo Ann Meyer Stratton]

For a manufactured home to be financed by a FHA loan, the foundation, installation and enclosure has to meet the Permanent Foundation Guidelines for Manufactured Housing. Local and state requirements are completely different and may or may not be similar. The best thing to do (if marketing the home as eligible for FHA) is to have a licensed engineer do an inspection and let them determine if the set up will met FHA requirements. If that engineer's says it does not--then you have to make the decision of whether to go to the expense of retrofitting the home to FHA requirements or not. Or you might have a retrofitting offer in your marketing if the buyer decides to apply for FHA. The engineer would also make the determination of whether HardiPlank skirting is considered durable material in your area. If you don't want the expense of an engineer's inspection at this time, if your buyer decides they want FHA financing, the engineer's inspection could be paid by the buyer. Those are all negotiating factors you need to be aware of for the sale to finalize.

 

[OSU Beavers]

It seems to vary from engineer to engineer. Our local engineer will pass anything as long as the tie-downs are in. Down there in Southern Oregon, who knows?

Getting back to conventional loans. Does Fannie or Freddie have anything in writing saying that if the skirting material passes Local and State requirements, then it is considered to be a Permanent Foundation?

 

[Jerry Bone Jr]

Here is a link to the PFGfMH, http://www.huduser.org/publications/destech/permfound.html

 

[Mr Rex]

Heres something I found on the Freddie site. Tell me that #5 isn't a can o' worms.

http://www.freddiemac.com/sell/expmkts/mhle_qa.html

 

[G-man]

Ok

It's a big *** can O' worms. I'll have to carefully word any statement regarding whether or not a manf. home is "permanently fixed", in as much as I don't go grubbing around crawl spaces.

As an aside, who the heck writes for Freddie Mac? My God, two syntax mistakes in one paragraph. You'd think report writers would be able to write intelligable sentances.

 

[OSU Beavers]

Freddie now requiring an engineered foundation? That's disturbing. Sounds like unless you have the "full meal deal" poured concrete runners or a full slab with a perimeter of concrete blocks or a poured concrete stemwall PLUS an engineers certificate anyone can balk at your foundation and use it as an excuse to deny a loan.

Words of wisdom from my mother: "No matter what you do they are going to change the rules next year anyway, so just go with what is cheapest."

 

[Mr Rex]

Beaver, I think you may have misread. All manufactured homes in the recent past (10 years or so at least) come with pre engineered "set plans" that detail how far apart the piers are and what the minimal soil bearing capacity is for either concrete footings or whatever the engineering calls for. This is what many municipalities use as definition for a permanent foundation. The biggest fallacy in the market is that the skirt wall, underpinning or whatever you want to call it has anything to do with the permanence of the supporting structure (foundation) of the manufactured home, except when needed for shear strength etc to meet wind load requirements. So, in actuality, a manufactured home need not have any type of underpinning or skirting to be permanently supported. A durable underpinning does help keep out the varmints, but in most cases brick, concrete or block underpinning doesn't do a damn thing to support or hold the "trailer" to the ground and adds added permanence in the time it takes to knock down brick, block or concrete versus a lighter material and slapping the wheels and axles back on. Beleive me, it ain't much, I have "set up" people in the extended family. I am in NC you know, can't hardly go through a drive-thru without having to yield to a 14 footer, crossing over into your lane.