Phoenix Mobile

[TJQuate]

This is a nightmare app. I was about 5 turns away from completing a sketch of a 11,000 sf, 3 story when the app blinked and my screen went totally blank. With a tear and trembling hands, I opened the program back up... Finished my cry, went outside, took a long drink in the scorching heat of this 102 degree day, and started all over again.

Next week, I got brave and did a couple small houses. About the fifth one, did it again. Not being the sharpest knife in the drawer, I tried one last time this am, it was early, the temp still below 95, and the house was easy to draw again in DiVinci. I pray Bradford Clickform does not invest in this app at this time. As for my little business, I'm back to devinci and seriously considering changing software to WinTotal.

Good luck to those who test drive Phoenix, start with 30 x 50 boxes!

 

[MZ818]

I stopped using the App to for measuring larger homes. Same thing happened to me on a 4000 sf home I was measuring in Malibu that had so many angles. I completed the first floor and was about the finish the 2nd floor when boom, the app crashed and sketch was not there. I only use this App when I measure homes 500 sf to 1500 sf, since they are very basic. I like the field gathering portion of it, but sketch does not work as well as Mobile Sketch on my old PDA. I've used Mobile Sketch since 2005 and it is still a superior sketching program vs Phoenix. They said they were supposed to come out with some enhancement, but i've yet to see it.

 

[Randall Garrett]

MZ,

(Not trying to "hijack" this thread - just responding to Apex-related items)

Our MSA (MobileSketch for Android) should be out pretty soon. I've chronicled things in various posts in the Apex section and recently updated relevant threads. Of course, talk is cheap and most just want to know "when?!?". I am not prepared to give an exact date today, but FWIW, I posted a link to a preliminary video back in mid-May so folks could get a sneak peak and I understand that Robert is scheduled to do a follow-up video very soon. This video will show a lot more ;-). With MSi (iPad) the wait between initial video and App Store availability was (unfortunately) several months, but this will not be the case with MSA

MSA video link
http://appraisersforum.com/showthread.php?t=187666

Once the next video goes up, the MSA app will go up in the marketplace(s) pretty darn fast.


One factor in the delay releasing MSA is that various Integration Partners are showing interest in using the app as part of their overall solution. This sort of thing tends to drag things out as there are always technical items to work out even before the business folks get involved. My view ATM is that we may just end up releasing the "basic" sketcher sooner rather than wait for all interested parties to get their various items incorporated. I am tired of sitting on the app, so I lean toward this plan as an interim solution. It is fair to say, however, that we (Apex) have a bit more to get done ourselves so that one can use the app with regular (desktop) Apex v5 - something that is critical IMHO so that folks can bring in their field sketches straight into their integrated Apex desktop sketcher. We'd love a deeper integration, but at the core the basic integration functions pretty much like MS for Pocket PC did - just open the sketch right in Apex... That, in itself, is not such a tough item, but Apex updates always have a lot more in them than may meet the eye of a user in any one industry. That is, an Apex desktop update has to take into account all variations for multiple markets. So, just because we get (say) the MSA things done, we still have to incorporate items on other users' lists. That said, again, I believe all these things are n the funnel now


MSA is pretty robust since it was built from my "real CAD" engine. One of the early screen shots I posted showed a pretty complex residential floor plan - I just obscured the GUI so as not to make folks think MSA was going to look/work like my CAD product? I guess I could load up a few highly detailed commercial projects, subdivision or apartment complex files to show how large files are being done, but I was thinking that most folks are mainly interested in residential stuff and the house I pulled up is already WAY more detailed than what most appraisers deal with anyway, ven before AI filtered out a ton of detail commonly seen in CAD files. In any case, the engine already waseasily handling very complex buildings before I decided to leverage it for an appraisal type sketcher.

Real CAD file in Android engine
http://appraisersforum.com/showthread.php?t=186125&page=2


IF I read Steve's posts correctly, there may be some interest in allowing MSA to be used in conjunction with their data collector. It is possible that I misread things and IF that is a possibility, official word would rightfully come from him, but we are trying to coordinate a chat to see what makes sense for all.

MSA + PhoenixSuite data collector?
http://appraisersforum.com/showthread.php?p=2262714#post2262714


Hope this helps! BTW, did you ever let me know what Android device and OS you are running? I have set a "Honeycomb or better" threshold for a release requirement, though we recently "back-ported" it to Gingerbread and up, just to run it under a beta app which allows you to run Android apps on your PC's desktop. We needed to use this app to do a seminar. I was mostly pleased with the performance, but I still want to weed out early cheapo clone pads and requiring Honeycomb or better largely accomplishes that. With the plethora of new really decent quality $199 and up tablets coming out now, I have little interest in supporting sub-par devices as I find them largely inadequate for productive work compared to more contemporary models.


Hope this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
*Apex Software*

/end/

 

[MZ818]

That would be ideal if Mobile Sketch integrates with Phoenix. I recently purchased the New iPad and have used Phoenix and Mobile Sketch both on that device. I prefer the sketching of Mobile Sketch over Phoenix, as it is a far superior program.

 

[Randall Garrett]

MZ,

Thanks for the feedback. It is interesting to me to hear actual user feedback on products (vs. sales hype.) I read your comments to mean that you find the "data collector" elements of PhoenixSuite to work well for you. (Understood that products grow to improve with constructive feedback from users.) I have my own perspective(s) on the sketching aspects of data collection, but I cannot judge the other bits like an appraiser out in the real world like you and others can. While I was an appraiser myself for many years, that is in the past and nothing beats feedback like what you can provide IMHO. Having met Steve, I think he is a good guy and if appraisers in general like his app, that gives me more confidence in working with his company.

FWIW, I hope to see us upload the MSi update to Apple shortly. It can take "up to two weeks", however, for them to approve the app once they receive it. Sometimes it goes smoothly, but sometimes their all-knowing overlords reject an app for reason I disagree with. They once rejected a submission because I put in an "Exit" button on the "File" menu... Anyway, the next update brings MSi much closer to MSA in terms of convenience items and some other (largely uninteresting things to you) bits under the hood. I will post something in an appropriate thread once we submit and get approval from Apple so you'll have an idea on timing...

While MSA is still far more robust, if you already have an iPad, that version would obviously be the way to go for you IMHO vs. switching to an Android tablet at this time. For NEW purchasers, however, I think that the new (quality) Android pads offer a better return on investment - at least from the cost, choices in form factor and appraisal apps perspectives. I do not sell this hardware and YMMV on other apps, etc.


-Randall Garrett-
*Apex Software*

/end/

 

[Value Ninja]

I'm currently trying out Phoenix, but my comments and questions apply to all similar solutions. I realize that I'm not totally proficient yet, but I'm wondering how much time this actually saves? My initial thoughts/concerns. In a perfect situation, all of the inspection data (required for the forms) would be completely captured by the app's drop down lists/check boxes/etc.... If that's not the case, then a more time consuming entry is required either during the inspection or back at the office (after the data transfer). Also, data entry errors can be a problem. What if you check a wrong entry from a list and don't realize it? or wanted to double check it later? You would not have a hand written inspection note. I found this to be a problem for an inspection I did several days earlier (which wasn't fresh on my mind). Turns out I had made the correct entry from the start, but had questioned it when I was working on the report several days later and had no easy way to verify it. I guess I find the hand written inspection notes comforting, as there will never be data entry errors, and they are easy to reference at a later date. Also, you will also be taking written notes anyway (for relevant items not covered by the app), so now the tablet is just something extra I have to hold (and manage not to break). Regarding sketching, I like the fact that I have a finished (validated) sketch when I leave. But I rarely have sketching/measurement issues, and it does take me more time to sketch on the device at the inspection than it would to do it by hand. I realize this is off-set by not having to re-sketch it out on the software later. Finally, I like cool tech solutions, but sometimes 'older school' approaches are more feasible/reliable. My long standing data entry/inspection approach has been to take hand written inspection notes (including sketch), then enter it directly into the form on my laptop (in the car while still on location). That way the rare measuring issue will be addressed while I'm there, and I'm usually gone in 5-10 minutes. I'm interested in feedback from users with more experience on these apps. At the end of the day, does this really save time? Do you have issues with data entry errors (even rarely)? Do you miss having hand written field notes as a reference? How 'buggy' is the software? Any other thoughts.... Thanks

 

[Value Ninja]

I'm currently trying out Phoenix, but my comments and questions apply to all similar solutions. I realize that I'm not totally proficient yet, but I'm wondering how much time this actually saves? My initial thoughts/concerns. In a perfect situation, all of the inspection data (required for the forms) would be completely captured by the app's drop down lists/check boxes/etc.... If that's not the case, then a more time consuming entry is required either during the inspection or back at the office (after the data transfer). Also, data entry errors can be a problem. What if you check a wrong entry from a list and don't realize it? or wanted to double check it later? You would not have a hand written inspection note. I found this to be a problem for an inspection I did several days earlier (which wasn't fresh on my mind). Turns out I had made the correct entry from the start, but had questioned it when I was working on the report several days later and had no easy way to verify it. I guess I find the hand written inspection notes comforting, as there will never be data entry errors, and they are easy to reference at a later date. Also, you will also be taking written notes anyway (for relevant items not covered by the app), so now the tablet is just something extra I have to hold (and manage not to break). Regarding sketching, I like the fact that I have a finished (validated) sketch when I leave. But I rarely have sketching/measurement issues, and it does take me more time to sketch on the device at the inspection than it would to do it by hand. I realize this is off-set by not having to re-sketch it out on the software later. Finally, I like cool tech solutions, but sometimes 'older school' approaches are more feasible/reliable. My long standing data entry/inspection approach has been to take hand written inspection notes (including sketch), then enter it directly into the form on my laptop (in the car while still on location). That way the rare measuring issue will be addressed while I'm there, and I'm usually gone in 5-10 minutes. I'm interested in feedback from users with more experience on these apps. At the end of the day, does this really save time? Do you have issues with data entry errors (even rarely)? Do you miss having hand written field notes as a reference? How 'buggy' is the software? Any other thoughts.... Thanks

 

[TJQuate]

Hi, John. I agree that there should be a note taking box in the app. Homeowners have a lot to tell you and this all needs to be written down. How rude to not and go to your car to write down. Homeowner will have a lot of bad to say about your lack of interest.

What I have been doing as a work around is opening a Note on my iPad to write this down, but that is an extra doc I shouldn't have to keep track of.

I will say I love doing the sketch on my iPad. I a have a Otter Box with the neck strap and find this easier than pen and paper. Only when the app doesn't crash!

I have had much better luck with DiVinci and like the way it draws better.

 

[Wm. Hattaway]

Finished my cry, went outside, took a long drink in the scorching heat of this 102 degree day, and started all over again./QUOTE]

Are you sure it was the app that quit? You don't say what device you were using but some devices can't take hot days. I was using an iPhone as a hotspot (wifi) and had it sitting on the dash of my car (under the windshield but not in front of the air vents) when it shut down with a warning that the temperature had exceeded maximums.