Roll Up Security Shutters

[allen worsham]

I did an appraisal yesterday on a two story home less than a year old. On the rear windows of the second story (master bed, master bath, bedroom #3) the home owner has roll up security shutters. They area electrical with switches on the wall by the regular light switches. His home backs up to a freeway off ramp and there had been issues with things being thrown over the wall and breaking upstaris windows. These were professionally installed, but they have no interior emergency release mechanism. Now, I know that on typical wrought iron security bars on windows of bedrooms must have an interior emergency release. But these do not as they are electric only. The location of the windows is on a sheer wall, so there can be no exit on to a roof nor exterior access without an extension ladder. You climb out and you got a nasty drop. I have never run across this type of window security shutters before. I asked the home owner and told him that I would have to note this in the report, but I would also check around here on the forum to see what's up with it. I asked him to contact the shutter company about this. As they are based here in California, they should be aware of all building/safety/fire codes and should have literature about this.

I posted a picture, so hopefully it will be able to be viewed.

Thanks.

Allen

 

[Chris Colston]

Where I'm from we call those "Hurricane" or "storm" shutters. Nearly every beachside condo has 'em. The only problem I could see is if there is a fire and the electricity is cut off. However, as you said, without a "fire escape" chain type ladder, going out those windows could get painful.

 

[Big ole Boy]

I can appreciate your concern; however, there is about a .0000000001% chance

that it would affect the buying decision - in other words - move on - these kinds

of issues are "really" outside of what you are being asked to do.

MHO

 

[allen worsham]

Originally posted by David R. Stevenson@Jun 16 2005, 10:11 AM
I can appreciate your concern; however, there is about a .0000000001% chance

that it would affect the buying decision - in other words - move on - these kinds

of issues are "really" outside of what you are being asked to do.

MHO

The appraisal is being done for a refi, so it is not an issue for a sale. There are no value concerns as all comps are from the same project and are model matches and the high comp is right next door (I love it when an appraisal comes together like that) My concern is that the shutters show clearly in the rear photo. This is for one of my main clients and their underwriters are pretty decent most of the time if I explain the situation and circumstances invloved. I can just throw it all out in the addendum and let them sort it out, but as this is for a main client I don't want to have any surprise conditions that will hinder their approval process as they are trying to close this next week.

Allen

 

[George Hatch]

All things considered, I much rather take my chances with a 10' of even 20' drop as opposed to burning to death. It really should have an interior manual release.

I would venture to guess that even though they aren't bars, they would still require the interior release. Since it's uncertain and I'm not aware of any such references in the Uniform Building Code on these types of windows, I wouldn't make the interior release a requirement. I would note it in the report though, because a lender might have their own opinion on that.

 

[Robert Cranley]

I used to sell those rolling shutters in the town of Brea, California, and was told by the manufacturer that they have thought through the possiblity of electrical failure during a fire. The shutters are designed in a manner that allows a person on the inside to give the slats a good push and they will separate from each other and fall off the track, providing an escape if neccessary. I wasn't comfortable telling people about that feature until I had our installer set up a demo in the warehouse. Sure enough, those shutters are tough to break into from the outside, but pretty easy to break out of from the inside. Not to say that this applies to whatever brand of shutters was shown in your photo, but it applied to the ones I was selling at that time.

 

[Otis Key]

David,

Like George said, in other words, report what you saw and know, send in the report and let the lender make the decision. In the mean time, for future reference, you might want to call the fire marshall's office and get some sort of official interpretation on it. For years I was told by various sources that padlocks on wrought iron was adequate as an emergency release requirement, but that was changed a few years back and now doesn't fall into "acceptable" classification.

 

[allen worsham]

Thanks for the information.

Robert: That makes sense about being able to open them up from the inside and I figured as much. But I am not about to open up a window and give them a push. I told the homeowner that the company that installed them should have literature regarding this. I born and raised in Yorba Linda, so Brea was my back yard as well.

So I just said to "See addendum regarding roll up security shutters" on page #1 of the report and then stuck this in the addendum:

ROLL UP SECURITY SHUTTERS

THE SUBJECT PROPERTY HAS ELECTRIC ROLL UP SECURITY SHUTTERS INSTALLED ON THE SECOND STORY REAR FACING WINDOWS OF THE MASTER BEDROOM, MASTER BATH AND REAR BEDROOM. THESE WERE PROFESSIONALLY INSTALLED BY AN ESTABLISHED COMPANY DEALING IN THE SALES, SERVICE AND INSTALLATION OF ROLL UP SECURITY SHUTTERS PER THE HOME OWNER. THE SHUTTERS ARE OPERATED ELECTRONICALLY USING WALL MOUNTED SWITCHES LOCATED IN EACH ROOM. THE APPRAISER DID NOT OBSERVE ANY TYPE OF INTERIOR EMERGENCY RELEASE MECHANISMS AT THE TIME OF INSPECTION. IN VERBALLY QUESTIONING THE HOME OWNER, HE WAS UNAWARE OF ANY TYPE OF INTERIOR EMERGENCY RELEASE MECHANISMS FOR THE ROLL UP SHUTTERS APART FROM THE ELECTRICAL WALL MOUNTED SWITCHES. AS THE APPRAISER IS NOT FAMILIAR WITH THESE TYPES OF SECURITY SHUTTERS OR THEIR OPERATION, AND THAT THE APPRAISER IS NOT AN EXPERT IN BUILDING, SAFETY OR FIRE CODES INVOLVED WITH THESE TYPES OF SHUTTERS, THE APPRAISER RECOMMENDS THAT INDEPENDENT VERIFICATION OF THE NECESSITY OF WHETHER INTERIOR EMERGENCY RELEASE MECHANISMS ARE REQUIRED FOR THE EXISTING ELECTRIC ROLL UP SECURITY SHUTTERS, AND, IF SO REQUIRED, ARE INSTALLED PROPERLY PER ALL APPLICABLE BUILDING, SAFETY AND FIRE CODES.

Sure enough, yesterday afternoon I got the condition from the underwriter to provide documentation from a local building inspector that the security shutters installed "as is" meet fire code or provide an addendum stating manual emergency releases have been installed. So I call the LO and told them to talk to the homeowner. The ball is in his court to get the documentation from the the shutter company or get a building inspector out to sign off on them. Hopefully I won't have to make another trip out there, but I will do so with an additional fee.

Allen

 

[allen worsham]

Well, to follow up on all of this.

The home owner faxed me stuff from the manufacturer's website showing that they do have manual release devices. But it shows that they are "Optional". So I called the home owner again and discussed it. He was going to pull his sales invoice to see what showed there. He also gave me the name of the company that he bought them from locally as the manufacturer is based in Florida. I left a message for them and the owner called me back about an hour later and had a nice chat. I was rather amazed at this guy. He said he pulled the file for the homeowner and shows that there are no manual releases on any of those shutters. He was unaware that bedrooms were required to have manual releases for fire code. He figuerd that you had a door to the bedroom, so you just go out that way. He said that they could put ones on, but that would be for a substancial additional cost. The options were:

1. Replace the motor in each shutter and replace it with a different motor that has manual hand crank mechanism.
2. Install battery back ups which are basically a battery in a box attached to the wall or sitting on the floor. Not pretty to the eye, but finctional.
3. Remove the motors and replace them with manual cranks and pullies.

So now the home owner is not happy, and I agree with him. The company should have made this clear that the installation on the bedroom windows was not up to code. The good thing is that he isn't upset with me as I did my job and informed him upfront about what was going on.

So what does my client have to say?

"Well, he can remove them and then you can take a picture of the house and they can reinstall them after the loans closes."

Okie Dokie. Here's my invoice for the reinspection and 442.


Allen

 

[George Hatch]

The good news is that you've done your part. If these people want to make the decision to continue using those shutters then let them have at it. It's all good as long as they don't try to make you share the responsibility for those decisions.