Security Bars on 1st Flr Windows

[DCaruso]

I never had one of these. There are security bars on the first floor, and basement windows of a three family home without interior release buttons. Does anybody know the FHA/HUD code that addresses this? I am making it 'subject' to either removal of them or installation of quick release mechanism, however I feel I need to insert that part of the FHA code that addresses this and I can't find it. Thank you.

 

[Randolph Kinney]

If you read the handbooks and appendix D, you will see that anything that impacts on safety is a condition that needs to be remedied.

FHA also defers to the local authorities for safety issues.

In California, it is the state law that all bedrooms must have unfettered ingress and egress through the window. Other rooms, not a problem.

 

[incognito]

Read, learn, and know 4150.2. Then this is easy! Per 4150.2:

6. Bedroom Egress
All bedrooms must have adequate egress to the exterior
of the home. If an enclosed patio (solid walls) covers
the bedroom window, it is possible that the bedroom
won't qualify as a habitable bedroom. Security bars
are acceptable if they comply with local fire codes.
Occupants of a bedroom must be able to get outside the
home if there is a fire.


and in Appendix D

Window Type
• Enter window type: Double Hung, Single Hung, Casement, Sliders, etc. and identify the window frame material: wood, aluminum, steel, vinyl, etc. Rate the condition observed.
• Bedroom windows with security bars require a quick release mechanism for emergency egress. If not so equipped or inoperable, condition the appraisal on a “required repair”.


That is what FHA says in writing. Seems pretty clear to me!

 

[444nutman]

It reminds me of something funny that happened to me 2 weeks ago. I appraised a home for FHA about a year that had security bars without a release. I made the report subject to repairs. I went out a couple weeks after, the bars were removed, I took photos and submitted the report.
2 weeks ago I was doing an appraisal in the neighborhood and drove by that house. The bars were back on the windows. I turned around and drove by it again just to make sure. I got back to the office and double checked the report to make sure I had photos with the security bars removed.

 

[incognito]

Yeah, it is like what I condition a house for the removal of a second range/oven in an in-law suite, which is creating an illegal use. Upon re-inspection, I usually see the Range/oven in the hall or garage, and you know damn well it is going right back after I leave! I definitely get a photo, and cash my check happily for the re-inspection!

 

[Scott R Marshall]

DCaruso,


Ultimately it all boils down to what your local code says. While FHA says bars in bedrooms are a no-no, at times local fire codes are more strict and FHA/HUD wants you to defer in that instance. In addition, this may become more complicated as you are representing the subject is a triplex and local codes may be different as opposed to that for a SFR.

 

[Smokey Bear]

Regardless of codes or FHA requirements, it's a health and safety issue, and I ALWAYS call it out.

 

[Scott R Marshall]

Smokey,


Just for clarification do you call it out if any security iron does not have a release or only if in your estimation there is not sufficient egress. In addition, do you only call it out on bedrooms or any room?

 

[VegasWayne]

Lenders generally consider this a liability issue, whether or not FHA. I call it out for bedrooms, but wouldn't for a living room window where there is a door to the outside.

 

[incognito]

Ultimately it all boils down to what your local code says. While FHA says bars in bedrooms are a no-no, at times local fire codes are more strict and FHA/HUD wants you to defer in that instance.

Scott, I disagree. FHA says:

Security bars are acceptable if they comply with local fire codes.

If fire codes are stricter that FHA requirements, FHA DOES NOT want you to defer to codes, as you indicate. A common but incorrect misconception. Per FHA:

3-5 CODE ENFORCEMENT FOR EXISTING PROPERTIES
Local municipalities design local housing code standards;
therefore, enforcement of such housing standards rests with the
local authority. HUD does not have the authority or the
responsibility for enforcing local housing codes

Neither FHA nor us as appraisers are the code police.