STORM SASH

[Tom Tom]

Since a storm sash is an extra window placed over an existing window against cold weather would you consider a THERMOPANE window as a storm sash and that would be considered insulated since it has an air barrier between the two panes? What say you

 

[Tom D]

your a gc which means you have been around before insulated windows. insulated was high tech at the time, just like 'forced' hot air verses gravity was. but appraisal forms move extremely slow in their changes of life. pretty soon appraisers will not know what a storm sash was. a storm sash usually has some small holes in it for water to drain. kinda defeats the insulated purpose. didn't see that coming, did you.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

Nope. Storm windows (sash) here are simply a second window and do help equalize temperatures but double pane windows have an inert gas between the panes. I suppose you could put double pane windows over the existing windows. Here 99% of the storm windows I see are aluminum frame single pane over aluminum frame or wood frame single pane windows. Argon between double or triple pane glass is dense and provides additional thermal efficiency although the R rating is still low. Triple pane glass is quite a bit better yet but very expensive.

 

[jay trotta]

Storm Sash​

Storm sashes were very popular when windows were customarily standard single pane glass. The newer designs and insulated glass units do not warrant a separate storm sash as readily as when the glass was only single pane. A storm sash can be ordered and installed on contemporary windows as additional protection from the elements.

T agreed, but here's a definition anyway

 

[ZZGAMAZZ]

Since a storm sash is an extra window placed over an existing window against cold weather would you consider a THERMOPANE window as a storm sash and that would be considered insulated since it has an air barrier between the two panes? What say you

I've been meaning to ask (but embarrassed) about the 1004 page 1 "Insulated" cell. What are some examples of how it could be populated? And if None, should one indicate "None/NA?"

 

[glenn walker]

Yes- Some are designed to handle high winds and are energy efficient. A better looking superior product unless your in a Stage 5 hurricane and then nothing works : )

Since a storm sash is an extra window placed over an existing window against cold weather would you consider a THERMOPANE window as a storm sash and that would be considered insulated since it has an air barrier between the two panes? What say you

 

[Dublin ohio]

If you are using the 1004. It says "storm sash/insulated". Why would it say that if they were not considered different items?

 

[glenn walker]

If you are using the 1004. It says "storm sash/insulated". Why would it say that if they were not considered different items?

You are technically correct the Storm Sash/Insulated grid on Fannie-Forms was designed 30 plus years ago and has not changed and until more recently we did not have High Impact Thermal Windows or Thermal Insulated Windows. Single Pane non-insulated windows with storm shutters on most older homes were typical and common on older homes in cold or snowy areas and exterior storm covers. On a home today that has High Impact Dual Pane Thermal Windows- I can see nothing wrong with the appraiser filling in the grid with a ( Yes/Yes ) then down the page under windows- Insert Dual Pane-EE for energy efficient. A typical-Standard Dual Pane Window may be thermal but it's not high impact. And would not be considered to be a storm sash. The appraiser has to know his windows and on a non-high impact thermal window-in the Storm/Sash/Insulated Grid-He/She could Insert for storm-No and for Insulated a Yes- GRID-( NO /YES ) To eliminate any confusion I would also make a short comment about the storm sash-and insulated in my comments.

 

[ZZGAMAZZ]

You are technically correct the Storm Sash/Insulated grid on Fannie-Forms was designed 30 plus years ago and has not changed and until more recently we did not have High Impact Thermal Windows or Thermal Insulated Windows. Single Pane non-insulated windows with storm shutters on most older homes were typical and common on older homes in cold or snowy areas and exterior storm covers. On a home today that has High Impact Dual Pane Thermal Windows- I can see nothing wrong with the appraiser filling in the grid with a ( Yes/Yes ) then down the page under windows- Insert Dual Pane-EE for energy efficient. A typical-Standard Dual Pane Window may be thermal but it's not high impact. And would not be considered to be a storm sash. The appraiser has to know his windows and on a non-high impact thermal window-in the Storm/Sash/Insulated Grid-He/She could Insert for storm-No and for Insulated a Yes- GRID-( NO /YES ) To eliminate any confusion I would also make a short comment about the storm sash-and insulated in my comments.

Agree with everything above that totally addresses various releveant issues; however, IMO to address windows as an energy efficient factor in the SCA grid--although prolly the correct approach--would require the appraiser to interview every comparable listing agent, which is a slippery slope down a long rabbit hole, although the need to interview the realtors often is required for various other reasons.

 

[glenn walker]

Well

Agree with everything above that totally addresses various releveant issues; however, IMO to address windows as an energy efficient factor in the SCA grid--although prolly the correct approach--would require the appraiser to interview every comparable listing agent, which is a slippery slope down a long rabbit hole, although the need to interview the realtors often is required for various other reasons.

Well In SO CA 90% of windows are either old single pane or Insulated Dual Pane and I look at the MLS interior and exterior photos-Dual Pane always have large frames and are very east to distinguish from older single pane and not to difficult to distinguish from old aluminum sliders or old wood D-hung windows. Also 90% of all Dual Pane Insulated windows have White Large Border Frames. Actually HUD and Fannie have over the years said that adjustments can be made. Also all dual pane windows that I now of deaden noise and are thermal. The owners can get tax credits and the agencies consider them to be part of the energy efficiency analysis. I typically male a 1.5% to 2% adjustment on comps that have dual pane "V" Single Pane -So far in 10 years no push back from Underwriters or Reviewers. Newer Dual Pane also enhance marketability because they look so much better than those old aluminum window frames used from 1955 to 1985. So no slippery slope -if you go through each comparables MLS interior -exterior photos you will know the difference and most Realtors also have it in there listings. The truth is in SO CA Dual Pane Insulated windows are a way better investment than solar and if owner runs his AC less he/she can end up with very low electrical bills. NOW IN AREAS that have High Winds-Hurricanes -Snow And Hail I assume it would be harder for-those appraisers to verify -if a comparables windows were just standard dual pane or high impact, and that could be a slippery slope.