Two Story With Bulging Wall

[Angela Habercorn]

Hello all.

I could use some help with this one. Two story house built in 1960s has been ABUSED. At least two dozen old wrecked cars, two travel trailers, tires, appliances, etc piled on property. House has been vacant for almost a year.

2x4 studs were utilized in construction of this two story house and apparently the owner realized there was a problem at some point because he put plywood on interior and exterior walls, then sheetrocked part of interior (over the plywood) and put siding on exterior (over the plywood). The result is what appears to be 2x6 walls when we measure the windowsills. However, one window was recently replaced but wall not finished and we could see 2x4s under the layers.

One wall has a bulge in it (to the exterior) and the corner of the roof is sagging. I have concerns regarding structural strength and wonder if the bulges and sags are due to 2x4 walls.

I called county planning dept to ask about 2x4 walls in a two story. The response was that 2x4s can be used 16"oc for one floor, ceiling and roof. Fine. The next part is what I am struggling with: planning dept went on to say that if the house has a slab (which my subject does), that slab is not considered part of the framing structure and even though it is a two story house, it still has one floor, ceiling and roof so 2x4 walls ok on first floor.

Does this sound right? Can anyone clarify for me? There is enough wrong with this house that I am contemplating appraising as bare land with lots of debris. I should also specify that this appraisal report is for estate purposes.

Hope I gave enough information. I have not posted a photo here before, but I could try if that would help the above description.

Thanks,

Angela

 

[Farm Gal]

:blink:

Well first of all they built a LOT of two story homes in the 'old days' on 24 inch centers using 2 x 4's and few of them wound up doing what your described house sounds like it is doing. Are you sure the SLAB is sound?

At a guess you have either extreme termite or water intrusion/wood rot damage.

SO:

Fist off ask if you have the competency to properly assess the improvemetns (never mind the garbage) I have to assume you can come up to speed on disposal costs.

Whatever is there is to SOME extent grandfathered, but if in need of a certain percentage of repair, the damaged areas might HAVE to be brought up to code. Check the local building department requirements!

Then if you still feel competent to make the calls:
1. Recognise that you are NOT an expert in the area of structural concerns.
2. Make careful note of what you see, and then boil down your verbal description
(use those "worth 10,000 words" photos to assist in the abreviation process)
3. Make your report subject to whatever extraordinary assumptions of soundness (or unsoundness) you think a typical buyer would perceive, but make the report "subject to modification based on findings not matching your assumptions if other conditions are discovered by 'professional termite, structural engineer and other professional inspection personel'. but write it up better than I did .

Plan on extra time to develop the cost and market approaches. Sounds liek one of those 'learning experiences'

 

[Angela Habercorn]

Lee Ann

No idea if the slab is sound. The owner/builder put 2x4s on edge on the slab and nailed plywood to them. Most of the nails hit air so the plywood pops up and down as you walk on it.

I did not think about water or termite damage. This looked as though the roof was too heavy for the walls and the one wall was actually bending outward.

I would not claim competency to determine if improvements are to code or can be rebuilt. Owner does not want to hire a contractor or inspectors to assess the situation. Just wants a value. My inclination is to say tear it down and the value is $$$$ unless a experts are consulted and determine that subject can be rebuilt to code in which case report value will be adjusted.

I have lots and lots of photos for the report! And the debris can be hauled away. I only mentioned it to give a description of the overall condition of the property.

Most every job I do is a learning experience. Thanks Lee Ann!

 

[Otis Key]

Angela - I guess we can rule out the fact that the house is not giving birth since it's not a living object, however, it is Kauwliforrnnnnna after all, so that may not be the total truth. :rainfro: :rainfro: :rofl: :rofl: And we can probably rule out that the bulge is because the house has been drinking beer like me so we're down to a couple of other ideas.

Lee Ann gave some good ones. However, I wonder this aspect as well. Was the second story part of the original construction? If not, then was there a permit? I had a house built in the early 70's with 2 X 4 and I thought about adding up. It was on 16" center but even at that the code office wouldn't permit. Unsure as to the true facts.

Something to think about.

 

[Angela Habercorn]

Otis

Not only California but in the middle of the woods to boot. The things we see...

According to the owner, his father took out a permit for a garage, then proceeded to add on to it as living area. My data source does show that there is one unit with two stories on the property built in 1965 but that's all. A permit was taken out in 1996 to repair vandalism damage and the county did go out to inspect the house after a tree fell and pulled down the power lines.

I think a trip to the county for a peek at the original plans is in order.

Thanks for your insight Otis. :blueflower:

 

[Ben Vukicevich SRA]

Angela,

I would doubt that the bulges are due to the 2x4 walls, unless the ceiling heights were way over 9' which is not probable back in the 1960's

My best guess for the sags and bulges would be inadequate headers over window and door openings. If there are inadequate headers or no headers-say if there was an amateur remodeling project completed, the roof line will sag. Also, if the plywood sheathing has been installed without a gap between the sheets which is necessary, the plywood will begin to buckle with the downward pressure.

Photos would help, if you have them.

Ben

 

[Andy Grimaud]

A few things come to mind.

Scope of Work. Purpose of appraisal. Disclose.

The extent of research into the physical factors that could affect the property. ( are you an expert?) Disclose.

Cost to cure. Disclose.

Market reaction to your findings. Disclose.

You need not know how to fix the problem, just how to report it. Disclose.

Andy

 

[Angela Habercorn]

Wow. What a great help everyone is!

Ben - My husband did comment that all that plywood adds a lot of weight, so your information makes sense. The overall construction does not appear to be high quality, so inadequate headers would not surprise me. My photos do not show the bulge the way I thought they would, but I have attached one. Thank you.

Andy - Thank you for pointed out that I am probably over thinking this entire process. I cannot possibly have the competence (no I'm not an expert!) to determine if the subject can be rebuilt or repaired. But I can disclose what I saw and compare to other fixer properties in the area.

Angela

 

[Farm Gal]

Angela:

Depending on which county you are in, sometimes the process of demolition results in an adverse effect on value.

In other words a piece of junk existing improvement on a property contributes significantly more to the value of the land than a (demolished) vacant land situation.

Be careful that you fully understand the law in your area as regards permitting and rebuild process...

Lots of termite ridden messes were partially torn down and 'rebuilt' on a nominal 10 feet each of two adjoining walls for that very reason.

Just another thought you need to pursue before making that 'vacant/demo' decision.

And yes I have specific reason to know that this HAS in fact been the case in some specific No CA situations. i knwo there are folks in other parts of the country that think I am nuts but do your homework for THAT counties regs before you make the value call.

Regards,

Lee Ann

 

[Angela Habercorn]

Lee Ann,

Having a house in poor condition with possibility of repairing is more marketable and/or valuable than vacant land with improvements that need to be demolished. I'm in El Dorado county. I my area, I have noticed many sales of "fixers" that look more like they should be removed and start over. But they sell for much more than vacant land.

I have talked to the county on this property a couple of times. I think I need to call again and approach from a new angle. And I have to think about this some more.

Thank you Lee Ann. Just when I think I'm competent, there is another way to look at things!

Angela