Hybrid Appraisals

[George Hatch]

Waivers and hybrids weren't a thing in 2008.

 

[J Grant]

-

If the supply/demand had been in balance then you would have had the alternatives sources of work to tell them to pound sand when they approached with the substandard fee. But you didn't have such alternatives, while they had plenty.

The CGs trade demonstrated the control group. Unlike the SFR appraisers the CGs refrained from doubling their numbers so their leverage never declined to the same extent. The AMCs still don't have much leverage on our side of the business because even though the technology and other fundamentals are present the CGs have alternative sources of work and aren't quite as dependent on the mortgage lending pipelines.

A few years back the demand for SFR appraisal services greatly exceeded the supply for a few months. I know you remember what happened to appraiser fees - even from the AMCs - when the appraisers did have the leverage to pit the AMCs and lenders against each other.

It ain't that deep

When appraisers compete - lenders win​

When lenders compete - appraisers win​

​

And yes, when lenders move toward waivers and hybrids that is also a lender-driven factor over which the appraisers have no influence.

. When the same supply of appraisers was present the day before HVCC and then the day after teh JHVCC fees were cut in half because clients went the AMC route - a ten year old can underand.it. Teh clients went to the AMC because it cost the client nothing. Repeat that, it costs the lender nothing to use the AMC. If the lender had to pay a cost to the AMC, it might have changed the outcome. different outcome.o
t
Maybe if early on every appraiser had stood up to the AMC fees on day one, we would have prevailed, but the AMCs had huge resources and lender affiliation to withstand any pushback, and appraisers were blindsided, plus a low-resource group, many were living paycheck to paycheck or were supporting families.

I was supporting only myself so felt I was in a posiotn to tell them to pound sand on fees and it cost me over 50 k personaly of savings to help support myself ( if it has stayed in savings would be worth 3which I wasih I had that $ now would be worth 100k now , and it took me three years to regain enough direct work -

I don't remember a single GC, who were spared the pain from the HVCC decision, offering to help a res appraiser - write reports for them, something for a few months to resist the low fees. The CGs did not offer to train those motivated res appraisers who want to upgrade to CG. They did nothing - correction -the CG's did do something - they further demoralized licensed appraisers by casting blame and giving condescending lectures. -

 

[glenn walker]

I have maybe one of the largest collections of Slide Rules in the Nation.
It started as a joke when I was 17 years old and my Father came home with a
Texas Instruments or HP Calculator and bragged about what it could do. And all for only $350 bucks. My mother was livid and screaming that it cost two house payments. He's like but ypu don't understand these will replace the Slide Rules and it's like going to the moon. Anyways they had one hell of a fight and about an hour later he storms outside and throws a Slide Rule at me in a leather case and yells here take this as a souvenir because nobody's going to know what these are in 15 years.

Fast forward 1980 I meet the Yenta a Electronics Engineer and I laughed and said you have a Slide Rule ? and she says yes I use it everyday. I respond that my father says they will soon be gone and it's going to be a antique. She says yes but there will always be people who know how to use one and its a valuable skill.

Kinda reminds me of apprasers when we discuss AVM and Artificial Intelligence and how it's going to evolve into a whole new world. Most just don't get the bigger picture.

 

[George Hatch]

. When the same supply of appraisers was present the day before HVCC and then the day after teh JHVCC fees were cut in half because clients went the AMC route - a ten year old can underand.it. Teh clients went to the AMC because it cost the client nothing. Repeat that, it costs the lender nothing to use the AMC. If the lender had to pay a cost to the AMC, it might have changed the outcome. different outcome.o
t
Maybe if early on every appraiser had stood up to the AMC fees on day one, we would have prevailed, but the AMCs had huge resources and lender affiliation to withstand any pushback, and appraisers were blindsided, plus a low-resource group, many were living paycheck to paycheck or were supporting families.

I was supporting only myself so felt I was in a posiotn to tell them to pound sand on fees and it cost me over 50 k personaly of savings to help support myself ( if it has stayed in savings would be worth 3which I wasih I had that $ now would be worth 100k now , and it took me three years to regain enough direct work -

I don't remember a single GC, who were spared the pain from the HVCC decision, offering to help a res appraiser - write reports for them, something for a few months to resist the low fees. The CGs did not offer to train those motivated res appraisers who want to upgrade to CG. They did nothing - correction -the CG's did do something - they further demoralized licensed appraisers by casting blame and giving condescending lectures. -

WRT your last, CGs aren't any more altruistic than the CRs. If they were smart enough to refrain from flooding their own market during the boom it would be unrealistic to expect them to do so during the bust.

As for the notion the group could have stood up en masse and refused, that would have run counter to human nature. The only way 95% of the CRs are going to sit home instead of working for less is if they have the economic means to go without that income. Apart from that the notion of economic solidarity with their competition will be strictly subordinate to their solidarity with the other members of their own household.

Fee*50% > Fee*0%. There ain't no picket line in AppraiserVille. The uncooperatives are bypassing that "just say no" without anyone even seeing them.

 

[Zoe]

. When the same supply of appraisers was present the day before HVCC and then the day after teh JHVCC fees were cut in half because clients went the AMC route - a ten year old can underand.it. Teh clients went to the AMC because it cost the client nothing. Repeat that, it costs the lender nothing to use the AMC. If the lender had to pay a cost to the AMC, it might have changed the outcome. different outcome.o
t
Maybe if early on every appraiser had stood up to the AMC fees on day one, we would have prevailed, but the AMCs had huge resources and lender affiliation to withstand any pushback, and appraisers were blindsided, plus a low-resource group, many were living paycheck to paycheck or were supporting families.

I was supporting only myself so felt I was in a posiotn to tell them to pound sand on fees and it cost me over 50 k personaly of savings to help support myself ( if it has stayed in savings would be worth 3which I wasih I had that $ now would be worth 100k now , and it took me three years to regain enough direct work -

I don't remember a single GC, who were spared the pain from the HVCC decision, offering to help a res appraiser - write reports for them, something for a few months to resist the low fees. The CGs did not offer to train those motivated res appraisers who want to upgrade to CG. They did nothing - correction -the CG's did do something - they further demoralized licensed appraisers by casting blame and giving condescending lectures. -

The bill was originally written for separation of fees on truth in lending disclosures and you know what happened. The big banks lobbied that already owned or partially owned an AMC.

The final bill got changed as a result and fees were commingled. It is not rocket science. That is what happened. Ms. Trice was involved.

 

[chad hampton]

Liars, huh?

Have you ever looked at the list of AMCs that have registered with your state? That list includes current and expired or closed, but either way the list of AMCs with current status is a lot longer than 20 companies.

I counted 32 "Current" status just among the companies with names starting with "A". And I believe they have to pay fees to renew every couple years, so I doubt most of them are maintaining their registration just for the fun of it.

Check it out

The North Carolina Appraisal Board welcomes you to its Web site

Your posts have become so embarrassing, I rarely respond. You’re clueless if you think there’s 100 AMC‘s in my state each doing one percent of the business.

 

[glenn walker]

Your posts have become so embarrassing, I rarely respond. You’re clueless if you think there’s 100 AMC‘s in my state each doing one percent of the business.

It really doesn't matter if four control 90% of the business or 90 each control 1% of the business, the business model won't sustain a good livable income for most appraisers in your market.

Therefore you are screwed no matter what the breakdown of the percentages are.

 

[chad hampton]

It really doesn't matter if four control 90% of the business or 90 each control 1% of the business, the business model won't sustain a good livable income for most appraisers in your market.

Therefore you are screwed no matter what the breakdown of the percentages are.

Who’s screwed? Not me. This isn’t a profession, it’s a side gig, and I treat it as such.

Sort of like a data collector - no liability and no real care if I do a good job or not. This license used to have value. Such a shame what a relatively small number of folks have done to it.

 

[djd09]

Waivers and hybrids weren't a thing in 2008.

so if the mortgage brokers were estimating value in 2008...it would have been all good i cant stop laughing

 

[djd09]

Who’s screwed? Not me. This isn’t a profession, it’s a side gig, and I treat it as such.

Sort of like a data collector - no liability and no real care if I do a good job or not. This license used to have value. Such a shame what a relatively small number of folks have done to it.

hybrids are such a poor product...that the kool aid pushers dont do them