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External obsolescence prove it exists

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I apologise if this has already been brought up, but I don't feel like wading thru 150 posts...

If land cant depreciate, what terminology explains what happened to the market value of a vacant lot in say Chernobyl (or any number of similar scenarios ie Love Canal etc.) after the disaster???
 
KenRossman said:
If land cant depreciate, what terminology explains what happened to the market value of a vacant lot in say Chernobyl (or any number of similar scenarios ie Love Canal etc.) after the disaster???
That's been brought up. The answer was: "Land doesn't depreciate; it just isn't worth as much as it was" and "Land may lose value, but it doesn't depreciate."

Oh, riiiiight!! I'm not going to argue about it. It's like arguing evolution to a creationist: All theory and no proof.
 
I must be missing something.

I have done everything I can to point out that “reference” you need is replacement cost only and doesn’t entail the “approach” to market value part. In fact, what I keep seeing is explanations that show how the cost approach depends on value found elsewhere, rather than find anything on its own.
Go back to post 130 where Jim extracted the location difference and post 131 where Greg, broke it down, $7,000 by land values and backed into the external obs for a cost approach. These demonstrations of making the cost approach “work,” always seem dependent on already knowing what the property is worth.

The cost is your point of reference in measuring the obsolesence. To have obsolesence you have to have some kind of market reaction to measure against the cost.

All 'obsolescence' is (is) basically measuring the 'cost' vs. what the market will bring. Whatever the difference, equals the amount of the obsolesence. So I guess if you want to call that backing into it, you're right.

Now I'd like to hear some responses to the following:

I buy a vacant lot for $300,000 and build a 5,000 sf home for $700,000 for a total expenditure of $1 Mil.

The problem is I built it in an area where the surrounding homes are generally 3,500-4,000 sf with a predominant value of around $700,000.

After adequate market exposure, the highest offer I had on the property was $800,000. Therefore, there appears to be $200,000 worth of obsolescence. Correct?

1 - Is that an example of functional or locational obsolescence?

2 - What went down in value? The lot or the improvements?

3 - Without the market reaction to the finished product, how else do you measure the obsolesence?
 
I apologise if this has already been brought up, but I don't feel like wading thru 150 posts...

If land cant depreciate, what terminology explains what happened to the market value of a vacant lot in say Chernobyl (or any number of similar scenarios ie Love Canal etc.) after the disaster???

Land Does depreciate. Land doesn't have a cost, it has a value. So in the context of the COST approach, you exclude the land b/c you use an opinion of site value, not a cost. The depreciation applies to the improvements, which have a cost in that scenario, not a market value.
 
?

Oh, riiiiight!! I'm not going to argue about it. It's like arguing evolution to a creationist: All theory and no proof.


Are you referring to the THEORY of evolution, with its 100 years of research, or the THEORY of creation which has just hung around for about 8000? couldn't tell which theory you may be referring to.
 
That's been brought up. The answer was: "Land doesn't depreciate; it just isn't worth as much as it was" and "Land may lose value, but it doesn't depreciate."

Oh, riiiiight!! I'm not going to argue about it. It's like arguing evolution to a creationist: All theory and no proof.
It has no resemblance to that.

I don’t see any dispute on the forum about the whether land values can decrease. However, the word “depreciate,” as I have posted many times, has many meanings. Depending on which meaning you use, land can either depreciate (lose value, for example) or not depreciate (wear out).

Joyce,
I buy a vacant lot for $300,000 and build a 5,000 sf home for $700,000 for a total expenditure of $1 Mil.
The problem is I built it in an area where the surrounding homes are generally 3,500-4,000 sf with a predominant value of around $700,000.
After adequate market exposure, the highest offer I had on the property was $800,000. Therefore, there appears to be $200,000 worth of obsolescence. Correct?
That was my point. (Given the implied assumption of no deterioration) you only needed the $1 million to measure the so-called “obsolescence.” The "approach to value" part of the cost approach isn't needed. And the other point was, if you move forware to find obsolescence, if any, you would do so already knowing what the property is worth.
 
However, the word “depreciate,” as I have posted many times, has many meanings. Depending on which meaning you use, land can either depreciate (lose value, for example) or not depreciate (wear out).

Thanks Steve for recognizing that there is more than one definition of depreciation, which of course is clearly to the credit of the crowd Joyce can't keep up with.

In appraising and in this discussion we are dealing with loss in value from some sort of external circumstance. Nobody said the land wore out. To Any appraiser who has set her of him self into cement by insisting the word depreciation always means something other than decrease in value may be headed the way of the dinosaurs in their thinking.

As can be seen in this thread, confusion first, reason later.

Please anybody answer why circumstances external to the site cannot decrease the value of the lot.

Those of you who insist the term depreciation applies only to buildings and also recognize that land values can decrease are going to have come up with an explanation better than the land is "just worth less." Its fine with me if you don't want to call it depreciation, but for gosh sakes please recognize that your definition is strained and artificially restricted at best.
 
2 - What went down in value? The lot or the improvements?

Possibly both, but you forgot to tell us whether in your analysis you discovered that the surrounding property values are the cause of the lower market value of the subject. Or was something else at work?
 
God love you Greg. You tried and I admire your effort.

I've given up on this crowd. I've never seen such an anal bunch that are so caught up in the minutia that they've lost sight of the big picture.

I liken you to Isaac Newton. You're trying to discuss the basics of gravity to a group who think the results would be different had it been a pear instead of an apple.

And that was a personal POTT shot. Let the moderating begin.

Joyce, have patience with the intellectually challenged. With regard to the questions this thread raises, I'm one of them and I think you've got patience in you. This is a good discussion, and though you have settled the question for yourself, many of us have not and we haven't found what you urge as persuasive yet.

Learning to support our comments is central to being an appraiser and that, more than anything else is what is taking place here.

Have patience. You may be correct, but this is hardly a discussion of physics.
 
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