Fee Simple vs Leasehold

[xm72mhd]

Edd ... how do you see two owners of the fee simple interest .... one holds the property by lease the other by deed ... that isnt joint ownership of the FEE ....???

I need to talk to you about this. I can't tell where you are coming from, but you aen't getting where you need to go.

Actually one person has a leashold and some sort of fee simple option and the other has a leased fee interest. Those twi interests are what are merging to make the fee entire in one owner.

 

[PropertyEconomics]

Edd ...
I think this is not as complicated as everyone is making it ... the SELLER cannot sell something he DOES NOT OWN .. he has granted use and quiet enjoyment of the property to another ... HE DOESNT OWN THE PROPERTY IN UNENCUMBERED FEE ...

I realize the purchaser will be reassembling the bundle of rights ... but unless the lease is abolished as part of the purchase contract .. the seller will be selling his interest in the leased fee estate. He cannot sell something he doesnt own.

Im not trying to make this complicated ... but the facts are the facts ... was the property leased as of the date of contract ... YES
If so ... the seller cannot sell the fee simple interest in the property .. he doesnt own it.

 

[xm72mhd]

Edd ...
I think this is not as complicated as everyone is making it
Me too, but it ain't me that's doin it.


Im not trying to make this complicated ...
I understand your intentions, but the results are speaking for themselves

but the facts are the facts ...

I'm going to pm you my phone # and we will talk.

 

[Mark K]

I need to talk to you about this. I can't tell where you are coming from, but you aen't getting where you need to go.

Actually one person has a leashold and some sort of fee simple option and the other has a leased fee interest. Those twi interests are what are merging to make the fee entire in one owner.

Taking a step back...

When we appraise a piece of real estate (or the rights therein), what are we appraising? The rights of the current owner as of the effective date of the appraisal or the anticipated future rights of a purchaser? What if there is no purchaser involved? Do you feel that the interest appraised is still Fee?

I think that we are appraising the rights of the current owner of record as of the effective date, and if the appraisal is for a purchase, the seller will convey his rights to the real estate to the purchaser.

If the purchaser already has some rights to the real estate, then he will then own the sum of the rights after closing the transaction.

 

[PropertyEconomics]

Ed .. Im happy to talk to you but that doesnt solve the problem for the forum ...

While the answer may be ostensibly the same ... until you do the analysis you will not know .... A buyer cant purchase something he already owns and a seller cant sell something he doesnt own. Please tell me how I am missing this?

 

[PropertyEconomics]

Taking a step back...

When we appraise a piece of real estate (or the rights therein), what are we appraising? The rights of the current owner as of the effective date of the appraisal or the anticipated future rights of a purchaser?

I think that we are appraising the rights of the current owner of record as of the effective date, and if the appraisal is for a purchase, the seller will convey his rights to the real estate to the purchaser.

If the purchaser already has some rights to the real estate, then he will then own the sum of the rights after closing the transaction.

Mr Keutzer .. that, In my opinion, Is EXACTLY right. A seller can only sell what he owns and a purchaser can only pay for that which he does not own. In this instance the property is NOT OWNED IN FEE .... the seller owns a portion (Leased Fee -- he has leased his fee interest) and the buyer owns a portion (Leasehold ... he HOLDS the property by lease as well as an interest resulting from a portion of the lease payments being applied as a downpayment toward purchase).

 

[xm72mhd]

Ed .. Im happy to talk to you but that doesnt solve the problem for the forum ...

While the answer may be ostensibly the same ... until you do the analysis you will not know .... A buyer cant purchase something he already owns and a seller cant sell something he doesnt own. Please tell me how I am missing this?

OK, we'll do it your way, but first you tell me what a fee simple interest is and how the leased fee relates to it. This not a trrick quiz, I am sincere. I think I know the answer to the question and if you don't get it right, I will tell you.

You asked for this in public, I'll be as clear and direct as I can be, and I'll try to remain courteous as well.

Anybody who wishes to chime in is welcome. I'm willing to learn as well.

 

[PropertyEconomics]

Edd ... I see that my questions were not answered first .. so here goes ....

FEE SIMPLE INTEREST .... Fee simple ownership represents absolute ownership of real property limited ONLY by the four basic government powers of taxation, eminent domain, police power, and escheat.
I have answered how leased fee interest relates to it ... the FEE is LEASED ... a portion of the bundle of rights (occupancy and quiet enjoyment have been granted to another).

Please answer this ... at the time of sale .. WAS RIGHT OF OCCUPANCY AND QUIET ENJOYMENT OF THE PROPERTY GRANTED (LEASED) to another person?

 

[Michigan CG]

OK, well, myself and the fine gentleman from Missouri seem to be in the same corner (as long as he doesn't tell any Iowa jokes -- folks from MO do that sometimes).

The buyer has a contract, it is a lease, so yes he has a leasehold interest. The seller owns the leased fee position. We all know that buyers on contract pay more typically on contract than Mr. Typical Homebuyer with good credit.

I would bet, um, a dollar, that the contract calls for a lease for a specified amount of time, with the ability to buy say on....July 1. If MR. Buyer does not exercise the option then he owns nothing and the leasehold and leased fee interests die at that time, therefore the only thing left is the Fee Simple interest.

Appraising the Leased Fee interest would be misleading...because the terms are not typical.

 

[xm72mhd]

Edd ... I see that my questions were not answered first .. so here goes ....

FEE SIMPLE INTEREST .... Fee simple ownership represents absolute ownership of real property limited ONLY by the four basic government powers of taxation, eminent domain, police power, and escheat.
I have answered how leased fee interest relates to it ... the FEE is LEASED ... a portion of the bundle of rights (occupancy and quiet enjoyment have been granted to another).

Please answer this ... at the time of sale .. WAS RIGHT OF OCCUPANCY AND QUIET ENJOYMENT OF THE PROPERTY GRANTED (LEASED) to another person?

I won't answer you yet. We've got some more ground work to do first for my benefit.

Now with respect to the fee. Would you agree that ownership of the fee can be split among two or more owners? Would you agree that ownership of portions of the fee can be owned by different owners?