From the Beginning - Who Decides?

[Mike Kennedy]

Mr Kennedy .. please take a trip in theory with me for one moment if you will ....
Lets assume I get a call from a lender who says we are looking at doing a loan on xxxx Main Street and we would kinda like to know a range of about where you think it will be .... I KNOW I KNOW .. just follow me for one moment.
Lets also assume I do the research and call back and say .. based upon my research and the size and assuming the house is in equal condition I think a value range of $.... to $.... will be realized.
Lets also assume the banker says that range is about what we were thinking ... go ahead and do the report.

Have you then accepted an assigment based upon a predetermined value .. if you are the one that determined the range?

Just a question.

http://appraisersforum.com/showthread.php?p=1524755#post1524755

 

[Fred]

Well said Amy.

I have to disagree. No criticism that USPAP is unclear is well said, until the person identifies the unclear passage, and comes up with something clearer.

Amy,
"Lack of clarity" is a moving goalpost if ever I saw one. "Changed so often" is another. There have been two major changes to the requirements in USPAP and about 3 or 4 minor changes since its inception

George,
No one is better than you at putting a positive spin on USPAP. You usually take this detour through a relaxing and artful description of the appraisal process combined with a nice appeal to the reader’s common sense. Then after building a sense and awareness of communal assumptions, you wind you way back making a good case, often for what the ASB was trying to say, but didn’t.

Maybe it's just bad genes, but I can’t read USPAP while mired in a sappy fog. For example, I look at the opening of Std 2, “in reporting the results of a real property appraisal” I have to ask myself if they really meant when I am reporting anyone's results, does that mean just the results of the appraisals and analyses that I developed. It gives me a slight pause every time someone asks me what the assessed value is. If I tell them, am I not “reporting the results of an appraisal?” So, is it clearer to say, “in reporting the results of his or her real property appraisal" or did the ASB intend Std 2 to apply even when you are reporting the results of someone else's appraisal?

Terry

Let's say you are Santora and do not believe there is such an animal as the "Cost" approach and therefore, justify the Sales Approach as the only approach which yields "Market Value". Do we sanction someone who doesn't do it right yet puzy foot around someone who eschews it altogether? Is a poorly supported Cost Approach worse than not doing it at all? No wonder no one wants to do the Cost Approach. Lets just scope it away.

If something is necessary, there is no scooping it away.

You have to enjoy the irony, Terry. On one hand you are wailing about the absence of a body of knowledge, even bringing this specific example. And yet the infamous “done-correctly” cost approach is something I have been asking you and others to publish since this forum started. I havent' found it in 100 years of literature. Think of it this way: if you could fill this cost approach gap, you wouldn’t have to complain about it being there.

 

[Mike Kennedy]

If you are going to give it away, why not give the Desktop for free? My point is, you can't ignore a written report with a claim of selective hearing, and a clearly stated EA should eliminate Mr K's assertion that you can't do an appraisal with a more limited SOW and later appraise the same property without being shot dead in the head by the USPAP police for a contingent value.:Eyecrazy:

:icon_idea: The same requestor, the same borrower(s), the EXACT SAME LOAN APPLICATION, the Same Subject, in many cases already "vetted" via AVMS and /or prior appraisals which "failed to hit the bullseye", the same Intended Use [residential mortgage lending] and Intended User(s) are somehow different, separate, and "unique"??? I'm sorry, I don't agree.

 

[Mr Rex]

Explain why. An appraisal of lessor scope could be to determine if an appraisal of greater scope is needed as part of the overall feasibility of the clients intended use. Please do explain, and bullet point where the ethical challenges occur in USPAP.

 

[Mike Kennedy]

In the Residential Mortgage Context of "comp checking", preliminary "desktopping", "pencil searching" the Bullets are unnecessary. Intended Use for "lessor" and "greater" are One and the Same.

 

[Mr Rex]

In the Residential Mortgage Context of "comp checking", preliminary "desktopping", "pencil searching" the Bullets are unnecessary. Intended Use for "lessor" and "greater" are One and the Same.

So there is only one solution? And folks wonder why their work is drying up?

 

[Mike Kennedy]

So there is only one solution? And folks wonder why their work is drying up?

Perhaps for some who insist on working for free or half fee or who really, truly believe, that 2 requests by the SAME Requestor, for the SAME LOAN APPLICATION, the SAME BORROWER, and the SAME INTENDED USERS AND USE- really aren't "related". Rockn-Rollin at full boat here. My clients insist on Practical, Realistic, versus Theoretical and NOT paying 1.5x for One Mortgage or Legal Assignment. Thanks for your concern tho. How goes your sales and collection$$$ volumes on "desktops" preliminary to "full orders"? Sell any yet?

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

the infamous “done-correctly” cost approach is something I have been asking you

The "done-correctly" cost approach would never be accepted by you and it has been illustrated time and again in this forum over the years. To you it no more than a fairy tale. You haven't seen one so it cannot exist....the same argument against a black swan...Europeans never saw one until they went to Austrailia and was shocked that such an animal existed. Hint. You have to leave Europe first.

 

[Fred]

The "done-correctly" cost approach would never be accepted by you

Of course it would.

You haven't seen one so it cannot exist

I have posted the exact oppsite in threads with you dozens of times. I'll say it again - I'll believe anything you can prove. Of course, maybe no one has seen it because it can't exist.

These responses, Terry, encapsule the entire reason you can't fill that hole in the body of knowledge. As usual, you insist on making me the issue, instead of the cost approach.

 

[Fred]

Explain why. An appraisal of lessor scope could be to determine if an appraisal of greater scope is needed as part of the overall feasibility of the clients intended use. Please do explain, and bullet point where the ethical challenges occur in USPAP.

That hits the nail on the head. Often review assignments start out with the same type of contingency. The review results, may lead to a request for a second appraisal.