July 2008 ASC Q&a- Wink Wink Comp Comp

[Carnivore]

I dont suggest to know more then the members of the ASB. I question why they would even answer a question in the manner they did. Thats my beef. Thats always my beef. Its like they feel obligated to provide someone with all the neat little tricks in a bag to manuever there way through the forest of USPAP.

They defintely muddied the water with the non-appraiser speak regarding the "Comp Check". Why they would even recognize it at all. Pre-Appraisal sounds better and its is closer to the truth. Then for them to add in something about Fee or No Fee just made it worse.

I dont see this as an ethics issue. I see it as a educational problem. Many appraisers simply donot understand what makes an appraisal an "appraisal".
Remember K-man ZAIOISTA made the outlandish statement that his so-called pre-appraisals were not appraisals simply because he did not include a signed certification. What a crock!

To those who suggest we ban comp checks, we can not to that because comp checks are an appraisal. Good Grief!

 

[moh malekpour]

Unbelieveable! Was that a serious question? Knowing what comp checks are used for....the comp check should never have been done in the first place. One can break USPAP all day long with ones actions...REGARDLESS OF THE STUPID DISCLAIMERS.

You didn't get the reason for my question. I have no quarrel for not doing a comp check at all but the reason for my question was this statement which I also agree with: If the reason you're performing the freebie is out of professional courtesy to someone and you have no expectation of a second assignment then there is no contingency involved, and thus no problem with the Ethics Rule.

This statement says that if you do the comp check out of your professional courtesy and don't have an expetctaion to get a second assignment, it is oK to do it. Do you agree with this statement or not?
If you agree, then what is wrong to put your intention in writing?

 

[Ken B]

We can't be trusted and will be eliminated while we cry out for guidance that we already have, have always had, and should have never needed to begin with.:new_all_coholic:

It would certainly seem that way to an outside observer with half a brain.

 

[Hamlet]

You are right Carnivore that comp checks from an ethical appraisers understanding are an appraisal. To MBs they are a guarantee for the "real" appraisal. I think that those that perform these "comp checks" don't consider them an appraisal, they consider them as snagging the order. They expect to receive the second order, and they will just pretend that the first order did not exist. Poof contingency! Orally transmitted OV's give them the loop hole to perform in this manner.

Outlawing oral reports may not stop the crime altogether, but you cannot enforce punishment against offenders without defining what is an offense.

 

[Fred]

Updates would have to be uploaded to the Appraisal Registry - and I would assume that appraisers who are known to do numerous updates as a matter of habit - would likely come under scrutiny.

Well, they'd just have to work in teams. Associate 1 signs the first appraisal and associate 2 signs the second appraisal.

 

[timd354]

time354,

The damage to the mortgage lenders does not occur during the first appraisal because they don't ever see it or use it. It's the second assignment that causes all the actual damages. You may or may not be able to argue that the first assignment had the strings attached, but you cannot argue that the second assignment absolutely did have those strings.
George, I frankly don't care about the damage done to lenders....most lenders know what's going on and do nothing to stop it...they obviously don't care about so called comp checks, targeted values, poor appraisals, etc....if they did they could and would demand quality and unbiased appraisals. if the lenders are damaged by their beahvoir regarding the appraisal process, I could care less, because they have brought it on themselves....the only reason to care at all about the lenders is that it is my tax dollars and yours that will be used to bail them out.

We get it - you guys want to outlaw comp checks. It's a nice idea in the abstract but there's no real way to do it on a practical level. Your first step is to define the service accurately enough so it doesn't bleed over into areas that you don't intend to infringe upon, and your second step is to define the service comprehensively enough so that the clients can't work an end-run on it vie technicality.

The reality is that you guys can't do either, and neither can the ASB.

You are right the ASB is likely powerless to stop this, but they sure as hell did not have to issue a Q&A that mortgage brokers who use so called "comp checks" to shop for appraised values, etc, will say justifies their behavoir:

Here is the applicable part of the Q&A....there is more, but the mortgage brokers will see this part of it and not bother with the full explanation:


I’m a residential appraiser and have been asked to perform a "comp check" (or "pre-comp") assignment, where a client wants to get an idea of the value of a home prior to proceeding with a mortgage financing transaction. Does USPAP allow me to perform this type of assignment?
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Response: [/FONT]
[/FONT]Yes.

 

[Mr Rex]

You are right the ASB is likely powerless to stop this, but they sure as hell did not have to issue a Q&A that mortgage brokers who use so called "comp checks" to shop for appraised values, etc, will say justifies their behavoir:

Here is the applicable part of the Q&A....there is more, but the mortgage brokers will see this part of it and not bother with the full explanation:


I’m a residential appraiser and have been asked to perform a "comp check" (or "pre-comp") assignment, where a client wants to get an idea of the value of a home prior to proceeding with a mortgage financing transaction. Does USPAP allow me to perform this type of assignment?
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Response: [/FONT]
[/FONT]Yes.

The last time I checked the ASB was concerned with Appraiser activity and has been unequivocal in the responses to appraisers and USPAP requirements. "Clients" asking an appraiser to do things contrary to USPAP do not need answers in FAQs.

 

[Charles Witt]

Let's face it-----it is a joke. When is the last time, or first time for that matter, you have heard of a state being shut down by the ASC? They do not have the guts to enforce what they should because the political ramifications would be to great.
Just look at their advisory committees for the AF and others. They consists of AMC members, banker members, broker members and other government regulators but very few actual people out in the trenches.
Banks are where the money is, or was. Still the political fallout if the ASC said no Mr. State, you may not issue any FRT mortages until you clean up your mess...................I am not sure the appraisal boards would know how to do it!
Retirement is looking better next year than ever!

 

[Fred]

Let's face it-----it is a joke. When is the last time, or first time for that matter, you have heard of a state being shut down by the ASC?

It's been a while, but they stopped Florida from issuing licenses because they didn't like the licensing test. There was something in New Jersey as well.

 

[timd354]

The last time I checked the ASB was concerned with Appraiser activity and has been unequivocal in the responses to appraisers and USPAP requirements. "Clients" asking an appraiser to do things contrary to USPAP do not need answers in FAQs.

Rex,

Life in fantasyland must be nice, but us appraisers in the real world do not need the ASB providing Q&A statements that wil have the effect of just encouraging clients' bad behavoir.

My standard response to "comp check" requests has always been to inform the "client" making the request that "comp check" requests were, in my opinion, a violation of USPAP (since they always targeted a certain value).....it was a simplistic answer, but it generally worked pretty well to educate clients......I guess now that answer is out the window for all of the clients who will read nothing into the latest Q&A beyond "comp checks" are permitted.....they will never read nor care about the nuances having to do with this whole issue, including targeted values, shopping appraisers for value, contigent assignments, etc.....

Once again, things are made better for "skippy" and more difficult for honest and ethical appraisers.