FHA policy Unconstitutional

[Bama Bayou]

It's not that I did not want to become certified, it is the fact (at the time) I had no need for it. If it was not for this subprime meltdown we would not be having this discussion.

This is my fourth meltdown, and I am young enough to expect to live through at least four more.

 

[Smokey Bear]

How is it if I have never done an appraisal with a loan amount over $1,000,000 and never plan on having a trainee that I am required to upgrade to certified.

How about to do complex jobs over $250k???? Really, the requirements for upgrading were so easy, that I wonder why anyone didn't do it before he 2008 changes. Thinking that things are fine where you are and will never change isn't too smart in this industry. Expanding your options IS smart, especially when the requirements were so easy to meet.

 

[Stone]

It's not that I did not want to become certified, it is the fact (at the time) I had no need for it. If it was not for this subprime meltdown we would not be having this discussion.

If you wanted to do more than the minimum, you could have. And, just because you didn't have your eyes open doesn't mean the signs weren't there. Subprime meltdown or not, when the standards changed, licensed appraisers were further separated. People talked about it here, they talked about it in classes and they talked about it in professional associations. It wasn't out of the blue.

Sorry, but it becomes more and more difficult to have any empathy for those who think that getting certified was easy and no big deal, but couldn't be bothered to to do what it took to be prepared for something other than the status quo. It gets more and more ridiculous with each rationalization.

 

[Couch Potato]

Damn, you are the arrogant one. It is amazing to read the complete disregard of respect one would think you would have for fellow professionals because we are not certified. There was no handwriting on the wall, no secret codes to decifer.

How is it if I have never done an appraisal with a loan amount over $1,000,000 and never plan on having a trainee that I am required to upgrade to certified. What you have a few more hours of education. That is the only difference between our license levels. How long have you been on the FHA roster? Did you have to take a class, pass a test, have some working knowledge of how plumbing, heating, electrical work? Just wondering arrogant fool.

Yes, I took a class and passed a test to get on the FHA roster. As a former contractor I also had to pass a test on construction knowledge. But that is really irrelevant.

You never plan on doing a difficult appraisal of a property with a transaction value over $250,000? Must be nice being able to make a living doing nothing but cookie cutters.

The Licensed level has be on its way out for more than 5 years. I am not saying that is a good thing or a bad thing, it's just reality. I think a strong case could be made that anyone too dumb to see that probably should get out of the appraisal business. Maybe that is what congress thought too.

Quit whining and do what is required.

 

[Mr Rex]

Senator Frank finds whining attractive.

 

[PropertyEconomics]

Damn, you are the arrogant one. It is amazing to read the complete disregard of respect one would think you would have for fellow professionals because we are not certified. There was no handwriting on the wall, no secret codes to decifer.

How is it if I have never done an appraisal with a loan amount over $1,000,000 and never plan on having a trainee that I am required to upgrade to certified. What you have a few more hours of education. That is the only difference between our license levels. How long have you been on the FHA roster? Did you have to take a class, pass a test, have some working knowledge of how plumbing, heating, electrical work? Just wondering arrogant fool.

JCS ... the handwriting on the wall was numerous, not as it applied to FHA, but as it applied to licensed appraisers. For the past number of years (Im guessing 4 or 5) states have been abolishing the license level of licensing, and to my understanding, the Feds have been pushing for uniformity in having Trainees, Cert Residential and Cert General in every state in the country.
Now whether you paid attention or whether you talk to your state Board members, I dont know. But there has been a constant push to abolish the license level for some time now.
Never knowing what may come up to appraise in my neck of the woods, and because of the training and mentoring I received, I chose to become Cert General so there is nothing that I would have to turn down purely becasue of license level. There may be a complex assignment come your way that you want to appraise, but because of your license level you have to either argue that its not complex or turn it down.
Its a few more hours, its a few more classes, its a different test probably, but more importantly its a statement to both yourself and your clients that you are qualified to appraise any darn residential property they can throw at you, as long as it does not contain more that four units.
I think in many instances, comments here are taken to be elitist or arrogant, when most are simply words of encouragement to go to the next level.

You said had it not been for the subprime melt down we wouldnt be having this conversation. The same can be said for all licensees, in that had you been certified two years ago, we wouldnt be having this conversation either. Unfortunately the conversation is topical and licensees are faced with losing business or moving up to certified.

Take it to the next level ... Im sure you have both the ability and the knowledge to do it and I personally wish you well in your persuit of certification.

 

[Bama Bayou]

JCS ... the handwriting on the wall was numerous, not as it applied to FHA, but as it applied to licensed appraisers. For the past number of years (Im guessing 4 or 5) states have been abolishing the license level of licensing, and to my understanding, the Feds have been pushing for uniformity in having Trainees, Cert Residential and Cert General in every state in the country.
Now whether you paid attention or whether you talk to your state Board members, I dont know. But there has been a constant push to abolish the license level for some time now.
Never knowing what may come up to appraise in my neck of the woods, and because of the training and mentoring I received, I chose to become Cert General so there is nothing that I would have to turn down purely becasue of license level. There may be a complex assignment come your way that you want to appraise, but because of your license level you have to either argue that its not complex or turn it down.
Its a few more hours, its a few more classes, its a different test probably, but more importantly its a statement to both yourself and your clients that you are qualified to appraise any darn residential property they can throw at you, as long as it does not contain more that four units.
I think in many instances, comments here are taken to be elitist or arrogant, when most are simply words of encouragement to go to the next level.

You said had it not been for the subprime melt down we wouldnt be having this conversation. The same can be said for all licensees, in that had you been certified two years ago, we wouldnt be having this conversation either. Unfortunately the conversation is topical and licensees are faced with losing business or moving up to certified.

Take it to the next level ... Im sure you have both the ability and the knowledge to do it and I personally wish you well in your persuit of certification.

I like this post, PE. It comes down to a business decision, not an irrelevant debate about the virtues of licensed VS certified individuals.

I did a little research and you can get online accredited college courses for less than $200 per semester hour. The AQB requirements are 21 hours. Some of these are four hour classes that can be completed in three weeks. Student loans and Pell grants are available. McKissock has the other 200 hours for less than 1K.

It will be well worth the money.

 

[PropertyEconomics]

I like this post, PE. It comes down to a business decision, not an irrelevant debate about the virtues of licensed VS certified individuals.

I did a little research and you can get online accredited college courses for less than $200 per semester hour. The AQB requirements are 21 hours. Some of these are four hour classes that can be completed in three weeks. Student loans and Pell grants are available. McKissock has the other 200 hours for less than 1K.

It will be well worth the money.

Thanks for the comment Bama. It just seems silly to continue to debate what will or what wont happen. For darn sure the writing is on the wall now and if licensed appraisers havent started the upgrade to certified they should. The economic crisis we are in could have strong potential for future business and in my opinion the crisis will only get worse and certification will become more important. I would guess that lenders will also adopt the certified only policy once its well established that FHA will only accept certified. I mean think about it, why would lenders keep two seperate sets of appraiser lists? The fact is, again in my opinion they wont. Then licensed appraisers will see further erosion of their business.

Attorneys in my neck of the woods will typically hire the appropriate certification level for the job, and certainly they will not hire a license level below that which the opposing counsel will hire.

Licensed appraisers are often from rual areas where mentorship is either not possible or extremely difficult. We have those issues in my state. I understand the original thinking of license levels, however, times have changed, requirements have changed, and our business must change as well. To that end, those that are licensed must change their thinking as well. It will be necessary in order to survive in our business.

One of the major points of negotiation, is not to argue what you cant live without, but what you can live with. I think the parties that authored these laws had that debate, and the consensus wasnt well we will accept all or we will only accept designated, instead they agreed on something they could all accept .. certification at a minimum would be required. The negotiations were successful for both sides as they each have something they can live with. They set the rules, they establish the laws, and we must simply abide by them. Its really quite that simple.

To all licensees take all the words here as encouragement and as advice .... again, the writing is certainly on the wall now. Lets not have this discussion again in one years time .... be certified and you will garner much more work in coming months. If you choose not to become certified, then you have only yourself to blame, because lots here have tried to warn you and encourage you.

Best of luck to all.

 

[Doug Wegener]

No one ever said that

I thought the OP said unconstitutional. Gimme a minute to go back and re-read. What a freaking joke. "I am an appraiser, the Constitution gives me a right to do FHA appraisals".

We live in a land of folks that think they are entitled to things they aren't if they aren't willing to work for them. BTW, the right to the Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness is in the Declaration of Independence 1776, not the Constitution 1787. In any case, your happiness isn't guaranteed even in the DOI, only the right to pursue it. And we wonder why some folks have problems with USPAP?:new_all_coholic:

I suggest pursuing your Certified license level. You surely will be happier.

No one ever said that. I said the Constitution gives you the right to equal protection of the law as far as Federal legislation is concerned. In other words, to be treated by a Federal agency the way they treat similarly situated people in other states.

 

[Doug Wegener]

Equal protection of the law and the 5th amendment

Nice try, while the 5th Amendment has a due process clause, it does not have an equal protection clause. There has been some case law where the courts have extended the 5th Amendment due process clause to encompass equal protection vis a vis government acts of raical discrimination, the due process clause of the 5th Amendment has never been interpreted has having anywhere near the expansive scope of the 14th Amendment's equal protection clause. You cannot cite any case law anywhere which would apply the 5th Amendments due process clause to federal government laws or regulations regarding licensing to perform a profession except as such licensing cannot discriminate on the basis of race, etc.

The Fifth Amendment applies, of course, to the Federal Government (see Barron v. Baltimore), and the Fourteenth Amendment, by its own terms, applies against the States. While the Fifth Amendment includes a Due process clause, it does not include—as the Fourteenth amendment does—an equal protection clause. However, in Bolling v. Sharpe 347 U.S. 497 (1954), the Supreme Court averred that it was absurd that the Constitution could deny the states the power to abridge equal protection of the laws, yet permit that power to the Congress. "[T]he concepts of equal protection and due process, both stemming from our American ideal of fairness, are not mutually exclusive," reasoned Chief Justice Earl Warren. The Court thus interpreted the Fifth Amendment's due process clause to include an equal protection element but has continued to hold that there is a difference between due process and equal protection in its Fourteenth Amendment jurisprudence