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How long until HVCC goes away best case scenario?

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"So what you are saying is that an AMC is going to solve this? Oh yeah, these guys doing the reports for half of the fee are so much better now with stating the deferred maintenance.
Reply With Quote"

you are being naive if you don't think that THE reason for moving to HVCC was to keep MB's from influencing the values of appraisals. The HVCC certainly has problems. . .but what it DOES do is remove all pressure to hit a value.

PS:

so you are saying that appraisers that work for AMC's for reduced fees are taking short cuts and doing shoddy work? Better look at the number of years of experience of many posting on this forum.
 
"So what you are saying is that an AMC is going to solve this? Oh yeah, these guys doing the reports for half of the fee are so much better now with stating the deferred maintenance.
Reply With Quote"

you are being naive if you don't think that THE reason for moving to HVCC was to keep MB's from influencing the values of appraisals. The HVCC certainly has problems. . .but what it DOES do is remove all pressure to hit a value.

PS:

so you are saying that appraisers that work for AMC's for reduced fees are taking short cuts and doing shoddy work? Better look at the number of years of experience of many posting on this forum.

From what I read, most are starving and shutting down shop. I have built my business on quality work for years and now have watched most of my good clients dwindle away due to these new guidelines. Am I supposed to be happy and agree with you that this is all for the good? I have always managed to turned away clients that I felt were not on the up and up or who wanted me to push values. Sure they're were some, but it was up to me to say no. Did I need someone to hold my hand, no. Do I think a half fee cut and a mandatory 24 hour turn around will help, no. Most of my clients did not expect a certain value, but now most of them cannot order the appraisals, should I be happy, no. To answer your other comment, I have always look to my more experienced piers for advice and answers, but it gets a little disheartening reading their comments on this site. I don't think many agree with you on this being the solution and I am along with them. If some people in this profession cannot handle the pressure and give an honest opinion of value, I agree, they need to get to steppin', and I do not agree with having to pay someone half of my fee for picking up the phone and calling or faxing/emailing a request. Why not push for better laws in the mortgage industry when it comes to MB pressure instead of taking half of our salaries and our. For what its worth, I might be a newbie in these forum's when it comes to expressing my opinions, but i am not as green as you are assuming. I've been in this rodeo for more than a minute.
 
Everyone is stating the fees have dropped by half. In my market the average 1004 was $300. . .$350 on FHA. AMC's are paying an average of $250. . .lowest is $235. . .highest is $295 on a 1004.

In other words, I am giving up $50 per appraisal. . .but I get paid by most in 2-4 weeks. . .I don't spend hours each week marketing. . .I don't do precomps. . .and I get far fewer stips than I did form the underwriters the brokers used.

In other words. . .the drop with AMC's in my market was about 16%. This was offset, frankly, by picking up several appraisal orders each month that were originated by mortgage companies that had never used me as they had appraisers in their pockets.

So from my perspective the honest appraisers that didn't push values and do precomps have picked up some business that they never would have received under the old system. The appraisers doing the yelling are the ones that lost it.
 
Everyone is stating the fees have dropped by half. In my market the average 1004 was $300. . .$350 on FHA. AMC's are paying an average of $250. . .lowest is $235. . .highest is $295 on a 1004.

In other words, I am giving up $50 per appraisal. . .but I get paid by most in 2-4 weeks. . .I don't spend hours each week marketing. . .I don't do precomps. . .and I get far fewer stips than I did form the underwriters the brokers used.

In other words. . .the drop with AMC's in my market was about 16%. This was offset, frankly, by picking up several appraisal orders each month that were originated by mortgage companies that had never used me as they had appraisers in their pockets.

So from my perspective the honest appraisers that didn't push values and do precomps have picked up some business that they never would have received under the old system. The appraisers doing the yelling are the ones that lost it.

First off regarding your previous reply, I never stated anything about shoddy work. You made the statement about the prior reports lacking deferred maintenance and my statement was to the point of it not being any better. My question to you now is do you think the experienced appraisers that you spoke about in these forums earlier did not state deferred maintenance then, but now they are doing it since the HVCC came about? As to your most recent statement about the appraisers now yelling: those are your well experience piers as well and yes, we are mad because we worked hard for those good clients. Are we supposed to be happy? it is my assumption that you never had good clients, is this true? If not, then are you not the least bit upset that the clients you had obtained over the years by honest proven work, is gone?
 
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markroberts situation appears to be a common exception to the general rule out there.

If appears to me that if you didn't cozy up to AMCs early enough, you were shut out of the barn and it's been very tough to get your foot in the door.

In general, it also appears that if you're in a relatively remote area with limited competition and not found in markets where the cost of living is not as high as some metro areas, you can do quite well with the AMC model. Unfortunately, in large metro markets or areas where living expenses are relatively high...the AMC model can be brutal.

AMCs are perfect for the cookie cutter world where TAT and fee structures accomodate a production line mentality. National companies only appear to nod their head in response to this reality and yet they seem to rarely bump fees for high cost markets such as SF and NY. $275 in Indiana is much different than in the Bay Area, LA, New York, Boston, etc...

Metro markets are still saturated with too many appraisers who are all too willing to work for peanuts. Until appraiser numbers decrease further, upward pressure on fees and a push-out on TAT to a more reasonable level will be years away.

What was this thread about? That's right...best case scenario...

Probably Spring...but can you wait that long? With or without MBs, with or without HVCC, with or without AMCs...diversifing your income couldn't be more important than ever.

On a side note...I'm still being amused by those that think the MB - appraiser relationship is toxic and had to stop. What for? The public trust? Loose lending guidelines were ground 0 for the mortgage meltdown that started back in...what was it 2001? Acutally, the seeds for destruction were sown back in the late 90s.

MBs aren't going anywhere...their numbers are smaller...but you can bet that a large number of consumers rather work with a seasoned MB in person than some phone monkey LO hack that works in a branch of a big box lender that has barely learned the ropes.
 
There are at least three groups who are complaining rightly or wrongly about AMCs but each group for different reasons:

Group1- Appraisers are unhappy because their fees have been cut down to half or less and are mostly under pressure to deliver their appraisals in the rush which makes them nervous and exhausted because they don’t have enough time to do due diligent works.. They feel that their years of experience, education and skills are not appreciated by AMCs and their fees are under cut by low skill, new appraisers who just have the license but not the experience and competency and skill to do some appraisal that requires skill and geographical familiarity. The only appraisers who are happy with AMCs are those who don’t do AMC works which are very limited and those who were working as fee split appraisers for other shops previously either because they were not skilled and experienced to do appraisals themselves or they were not able to market their business to get a full fee appraisal assignments. It is against all conventional wisdom to think that any appraiser with 10 or 20 years of working hard and getting skills and experience in appraisal practice to be satisfied with half or less than half of their fees and time pressures that are placed on them by AMCs. I have not seen any psychological theory that says the way to get a quality work is to cut the fees of workers in half and push them harder to do the work faster. This always has opposite results.

Group 2- Borrowers- Borrowers are complaining because they have to pay more for their appraisals, they also have to wait longer to get the appraisal done that sometimes causes the loan cancellation or other problems. The time consuming for the appraisal order from the loan broker, to the lender, to the AMC headquarter, to the AMS staff (clerk), to find the cheapest appraiser in the area, to order the appraisal and then, from appraiser back to the AMC, to the AMC QC, to the lender is a long time and this is if the AMC has the ready and able appraiser to take that low fee appraisal and deliver it within 24 hours.

Group 3-Mortgage brokers, Realtors and builders are unsatisfied because they cannot close the their deals and they are going to lose their customers. This is not ,of course, appraisers concern but they have one point that should be everyone concern and that is the fear of unknown. They don’t know what kind of appraiser are they going to get. Is the appraiser a local and skilled appraiser or is a new license with a limited experience. They are suspicions that AMCs priority in selecting appraisers is to assign the appraisal to the lowest fee and fastest turn around time appraiser. that fear might be true or not but the model that most AMCs have chosen is the net profit not the quality. This group want an assurance that the appraiser who was sent to do the appraisal is the most experienced appraiser in the area but they know as well as most of us that with the fee that AMC is paying, it is impossible to get the best experienced and competent appraiser
 
There are at least three groups who are complaining rightly or wrongly about AMCs but each group for different reasons:

Group1- Appraisers are unhappy because their fees have been cut down to half or less and are mostly under pressure to deliver their appraisals in the rush which makes them nervous and exhausted because they don’t have enough time to do due diligent works.. They feel that their years of experience, education and skills are not appreciated by AMCs and their fees are under cut by low skill, new appraisers who just have the license but not the experience and competency and skill to do some appraisal that requires skill and geographical familiarity. The only appraisers who are happy with AMCs are those who don’t do AMC works which are very limited and those who were working as fee split appraisers for other shops previously either because they were not skilled and experienced to do appraisals themselves or they were not able to market their business to get a full fee appraisal assignments. It is against all conventional wisdom to think that any appraiser with 10 or 20 years of working hard and getting skills and experience in appraisal practice to be satisfied with half or less than half of their fees and time pressures that are placed on them by AMCs. I have not seen any psychological theory that says the way to get a quality work is to cut the fees of workers in half and push them harder to do the work faster. This always has opposite results.

Group 2- Borrowers- Borrowers are complaining because they have to pay more for their appraisals, they also have to wait longer to get the appraisal done that sometimes causes the loan cancellation or other problems. The time consuming for the appraisal order from the loan broker, to the lender, to the AMC headquarter, to the AMS staff (clerk), to find the cheapest appraiser in the area, to order the appraisal and then, from appraiser back to the AMC, to the AMC QC, to the lender is a long time and this is if the AMC has the ready and able appraiser to take that low fee appraisal and deliver it within 24 hours.

Group 3-Mortgage brokers, Realtors and builders are unsatisfied because they cannot close the their deals and they are going to lose their customers. This is not ,of course, appraisers concern but they have one point that should be everyone concern and that is the fear of unknown. They don’t know what kind of appraiser are they going to get. Is the appraiser a local and skilled appraiser or is a new license with a limited experience. They are suspicions that AMCs priority in selecting appraisers is to assign the appraisal to the lowest fee and fastest turn around time appraiser. that fear might be true or not but the model that most AMCs have chosen is the net profit not the quality. This group want an assurance that the appraiser who was sent to do the appraisal is the most experienced appraiser in the area but they know as well as most of us that with the fee that AMC is paying, it is impossible to get the best experienced and competent appraiser

Very well said!!
 
...Mortgage brokers and Realtors will never be allowed to order appraisals. Getting them out of the loop has been a huge improvement. The HVCC will never go away, just another form will take its place.

This post is worth repeating (just in case a few thousand people didn't get the hint a year ago!)

THANK GOD MORTGAGE BROKERS AND REALTORS WILL NEVER BE ALLOWED TO ORDER APPRAISALS.

Sincerely,
 
So what you are saying is that an AMC is going to solve this?

Will Mortgage Brokers and the NAR? lol...
(oh yeah, congress will, with their 1-page 'joke' bill)

Oh yeah, these guys doing the reports for half of the fee are so much better now with stating the deferred maintenance.

The fee is an 'Interim' business decision for many. Yes, stating deferred maintenance is better than not stating it - even if it means killing a loan and/or deal.

Will you define an Independent Appraiser?

A lot of new people have been coming into the forum for a while now and, they claim to be an Independent Appraiser - speaking for them, too. Lobofan has been around the forum long enough for other forum members to consider it's status.

From my experience (9.5/10 +/- years of forum experience) I pretty much know if Lobofan is an Independent Appraiser or not.

Just curious; because a lot of new members have been coming in and callling other people out about this and that, claiming this and that about Independence, as well as, whining day in and day out about things that have nothing to do with Appraiser Independence.

How long have you been a AF member? Is the year 2009 correct - like it says on your profile?

Ok, I gotta go now. I have work. Maybe I'll reply back this weekend? I highly doubt it. I'll most likely be at the Pecan festival chasing tail. Maybe sunday; the Cowboys play on Sunday night; I have gas money.

Have a cool day, Jorge.
Sincerely,
 
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