How long until HVCC goes away best case scenario?

[The Warrior Monk]

Yeah, and I had two of them.

I also knew two. One was very honest; he quit being a MB a few years ago and took up bartending. The other one took a walk through St. Peter's Gates.

 

[TC]

I also knew two. One was very honest; he quit being a MB a few years ago and took up bartending. The other one took a walk through St. Peter's Gates.

the Yankees suck and the horse you rode in on.........

 

[smackodu]

Everyone is stating the fees have dropped by half. In my market the average 1004 was $300. . .$350 on FHA. AMC's are paying an average of $250. . .lowest is $235. . .highest is $295 on a 1004.

In other words, I am giving up $50 per appraisal. . .but I get paid by most in 2-4 weeks. . .I don't spend hours each week marketing. . .I don't do precomps. . .and I get far fewer stips than I did form the underwriters the brokers used.

In other words. . .the drop with AMC's in my market was about 16%. This was offset, frankly, by picking up several appraisal orders each month that were originated by mortgage companies that had never used me as they had appraisers in their pockets.

So from my perspective the honest appraisers that didn't push values and do precomps have picked up some business that they never would have received under the old system. The appraisers doing the yelling are the ones that lost it.

It APPEARS the HVCC was created just for you Mark. I guess the Appraisal Gods spoke and you have bennifitted from the latest corruption in our financial system. I see you more as the problem and not the solution. That is my opinion and not a personal attack. Here is my take on your posts. It sounds like you were a struggling young appraiser who didn't have any good clients. You did have some MBs but they were borderline ethical and they kicked you around like a soccer ball. You didn't even want to pick up the phone when they called because they might ask you for the feared comp check. Let's face it, you didn't have any clients who were willing to pay for your work and/or your opinion of value. That can happen in a free market. Then all those who can't survive in a free market are told you that unless you are corrupt you don't succeed. You actually believe that all of the MB/Appraiser relationships are evil. Fortunately for you the HVCC comes in and you are happy as a pig in a pen. The AMCs are actually paying you for your honest opinion. The AMC has new clients who see your appraisal reports. It's all good because all mortgage brokers had appraisers in their pockets. That is what the pro HVCC and AMC types keep drilling in your head. Besides, you never saw any of that action. So the honest appraisers who worked for MBs are SOL. You are doing Ok. You are an honest appraiser. Somehow you are under the belief that the honest appraisers like yourself have found a wonderful home with the AMC. Who do you think all those mills work for? Hey it's only $50 less than you were getting from those evil MBs. Hey it is all good! According to you, the HVCC is the best thing that could have happened to us.

Unfortunately Mark, you are now in the AMCs crosshairs and they have missile lock. Soon you will be getting those phone calls that ask you to take a little less and you cave. Another call will come in and you will take even less. At the same time the stips will go up. Then the assignments stop coming and you want to know why. You call up the AMC and they tell you someone else does it cheaper and faster. So now what do you do? Oh yeah, diversify.

Enjoy it while you can Mark! Let us know how you are doing in 6 months.

 

[Stone]

I see you more as the problem and not the solution. That is my opinion and not a personal attack.

What a load of garbage. If you are going to make a personal attack, have the guts to call it what it is.

 

[The Warrior Monk]

the Yankees suck and the horse you rode in on.........

Just think...if all appraisers sucked as bad as the Yankees, we'd all be praised as heros making millions of dollars...

Unfortunately, we're looked upon as Pirates.

 

[Lloyd Bonafide]

Both HVCC and the AMC model have to go!! Period. We don't need a middle man. If lenders decide and remember DECIDE to use a middle man to order appraisals, They should pay the sucker. Period no questions no BS no Sincerely. Done deal. I pay for the services I require I Do NOT require an AMC. The Lenders CHOOSE to use them. MAKE THEM PAY THE FEE. Is that sooooo hard to understand? And I agree if you can't tell a MB to stick it. Get a MR Softy Truck and sell Ice Cream.

We don't need a middle man - that is true. But mortgage brokers ordering appraisals is probably never going to come back as far as Fannie, Freddie, and FHA go. Appraisers are going to have to get used to that.

The biggest problem is that the 4 or 5 largest banks are using the worst AMCs, and they are probably doing 75% or more of the loans today. There are a lot of smaller banks, and wholesale or correspondent lenders around who are paying a full fee to the appraiser, but of course there is not enough of this type of work to satisfy all apppraisers.

If one change could be made to the HVCC, then I think a lot more appraisers would be happy - banks should not be able to own any part of AMCs.

 

[The Warrior Monk]

So, Dave and Tim you both seems to think that eliminating the MBs had a good impact on the industry.

Yes, in fact. However, there are more problems going on in the lending industry than simply not allowing MBs to order from appraisers in certain circumstances.

Both HVCC and the AMC model have to go!! Period. We don't need a middle man.

It should be noted that MBs are a middleman.

 

[LI-Appr]

We don't need a middle man - that is true. But mortgage brokers ordering appraisals is probably never going to come back as far as Fannie, Freddie, and FHA go. Appraisers are going to have to get used to that.

The biggest problem is that the 4 or 5 largest banks are using the worst AMCs, and they are probably doing 75% or more of the loans today. There are a lot of smaller banks, and wholesale or correspondent lenders around who are paying a full fee to the appraiser, but of course there is not enough of this type of work to satisfy all apppraisers.

If one change could be made to the HVCC, then I think a lot more appraisers would be happy - banks should not be able to own any part of AMCs.

Exactly and what do you think the odds of that happening is? That was the intent of the whole HVCC fiasco anyway. It is time to start over. The current system is bogus.

 

[John Hassler]

AMCs are the leading cause of declining appraiser competency. This was inevitable given their business model. Mr. Evans recently said he reviewed the "WORST" appraisal report he has ever seen, and I believe he has seen many. It was done by an appraiser hired by an AMC and apparently had passed the AMCs QC.

Why do I bring this up? Because the HVCC makes AMCs the easiest one-stop solution for lenders to comply with The Code. Worse than that, by allowing lender AMC ownership it pits the lenders short term interests against its long term ones. This in particular was not the case under the broker-select system.

There is no denying that AMC use has increased since May 1. Since there have been no changes in the AMC business model the reasonable conclusion to draw is that appraisal competency will be further eroded. This is certainly appears how the HVCC is playing out from reading the posts here, from talking with sales agents, and reading national news about the effects of the HVCC (although the NAR position appears overblown and self serving). We are still in the AMC filtering stage of the blast of appraisers who recently entered the AMC system. Slowly but surely the most competent will give way to their lesser counterparts - it's the AMC way.

So yes, I dislike the HVCC but not because it moved the cheese. I could open an appraisal mill tomorrow and run Craigslist ads looking for 3 runners, I mean trainees, with little chance of repercussion. I dislike the HVCC because it has degraded my chosen profession.

BTW I'm worried about the IVPI. They're six months late to the party. Maybe we should call the police, check the hospitals, and start a search .

 

[ockyappraiser]

"It sounds like you were a struggling young appraiser who didn't have any good clients. You did have some MBs but they were borderline ethical and they kicked you around like a soccer ball. You didn't even want to pick up the phone when they called because they might ask you for the feared comp check. Let's face it, you didn't have any clients who were willing to pay for your work and/or your opinion of value. That can happen in a free market. Then all those who can't survive in a free market are told you that unless you are corrupt you don't succeed. You actually believe that all of the MB/Appraiser relationships are evil. Fortunately for you the HVCC comes in and you are happy as a pig in a pen. The AMCs are actually paying you for your honest opinion. The AMC has new clients who see your appraisal reports. It's all good because all mortgage brokers had appraisers in their pockets. That is what the pro HVCC and AMC types keep drilling in your head. Besides, you never saw any of that action. So the honest appraisers who worked for MBs are SOL. You are doing Ok. You are an honest appraiser. Somehow you are under the belief that the honest appraisers like yourself have found a wonderful home with the AMC. Who do you think all those mills work for? Hey it's only $50 less than you were getting from those evil MBs. Hey it is all good! According to you, the HVCC is the best thing that could have happened to us."

First. . .let me correct you on some points. I have been in the business since 1993. Full time appraising since 1999. I have done well over 4000 appraisals to date. Up until May they were mostly from mortgage brokers. I averaged 35-40 orders per month because I ASKED for the orders. I called on mortgage brokers and mortgage bankers as a regular part of my marketing, faxed info sheets monthly and emailed every mortgage client in my market on a regular basis. Does that sound like I just got in?

But gradually over the years even the best of the mortgage companies were asking to stretch the number I came in at. . .they all wanted precomps. And that's okay. As I have said before. . .it wasn't illegal for them to push values or ask for precomps. . .those rules were on our end. They exist to close loans.

Am I making more money now then before? No. But at the end of the day, I have zero pressure (defined as orders with "estimated values" on the; phone calls asking me to bump the value up a bit; requests for precomps, etc).

At the end of the day, there is no pressure for value and most pay in 2-6 weeks. Mortgage brokers I worked with usually wanted to invoice. . .and that meant payment at closing IF they closed.

I think your problem is that YOU are the one losing business. YOU were in the pocket of some mortgage companies and now the appraisers that refused to bend are getting some of that business while you are getting very little because of your refusal to work with AMC's.

Everyone that is against HVCC is complaining about poor quality. But the number one reason was always value pressure.

one more thing. . .if you want to make a personal attack. . at least post in your own name. . .not some silly name you made up.