Customary and reasonable fees - 90 days

[Green Hornet]

Many a democracy has fallen because of greed. Our democracy will be no different .... its been a great 234 years .... but the end is near for capitalism as our parents knew it ... we have turned it into Greedocracy .... and that is a cancer that leads to death.

PE,

I agree with you about the level of greed that we as citizens, corporations and government are exhibiting.

I do think that you are mixing capitalism with democracy. They can and do exist independently of each other.

 

[PropertyEconomics]

PE,

I agree with you about the level of greed that we as citizens, corporations and government are exhibiting.

I do think that you are mixing capitalism with democracy. They can and do exist independently of each other.

They are definately different, however, democracies are typically built upon capitalism, once capitalism becomes greed driven and based, the democracy slowly dies ... requiring more and more government intervention until Socialism is left because the government, in order to "protect" its citizens owns and controls everything ... we are seeing it before our very eyes.

 

[Metamorphic]

Many a democracy has fallen because of greed. Our democracy will be no different .... its been a great 234 years .... but the end is near for capitalism as our parents knew it ... we have turned it into Greedocracy .... and that is a cancer that leads to death.

I agree up to a point. However, the socialists screwed this one up. They didn't ban the guns before they made their move like they did in all the other places.

I dont think it will be too many years before the "tree of liberty...is refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think the only real question will be is if we're just going to play around the edges a little, scare ourselves, get smart and get back on track, or if it will be an all out row that will leave us with a new social order. If anybody read that book "The Fourth Turning" that I've talked about before, the cycle of history suggests we're due for something with an "all in" ante.

 

[PropertyEconomics]

I agree up to a point. However, the socialists screwed this one up. They didn't ban the guns before they made their move like they did in all the other places.

I dont think it will be too many years before the "tree of liberty...is refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think the only real question will be is if we're just going to play around the edges a little, scare ourselves, get smart and get back on track, or if it will be an all out row that will leave us with a new social order. If anybody read that book "The Fourth Turning" that I've talked about before, the cycle of history suggests we're due for something with an "all in" ante.

Im not sure you can get the greed back in the bottle .... I would lvoe to see it but Im not sure it can be done ..... and yes I agree with you there will be blood shed over the tree of liberty. Thomas Jefferson was a VERY smart man.

 

[Metamorphic]

Im not sure you can get the greed back in the bottle .... I would lvoe to see it but Im not sure it can be done ..... and yes I agree with you there will be blood shed over the tree of liberty. Thomas Jefferson was a VERY smart man.

You really need to read The Fourth Turning.

They make a very compelling argument that generational behaviors are cyclical, and with them cycle periods of crisis and awakening.

The current Awakening generation, the boomers, have lead a very personally focused existence, indulging deeply in very selfish ways; think sex drugs and rock and roll, Yuppies, Tech Stock Day Traders, House Flippers....all boomer centric actives in their day, all greedy at their core. That behavior has precipitated a financial crisis that we can well expect to expand. As the US looses the financial ability to be a super power, other nations will step into the void. Its important to remember that the US is singularly remarkable in that we had great power but were never expansionist. Its not likely that the Chinese or a Pan-Arab nation will share that ethic....I think its pretty obvious they dont, wont, and never will. So yeah, bad stuff is on the way, and the Boomers that are sitting in the halls of power have no generational track record that suggests they are capable of setting aside self to tackle the problem. That's quite simply not the way they were raised.

OTOH, if you look at the generation of kids born in the last 20 years...their cultural upbringing, by people who were the generation after the boomers is much like the ethos that brought about the Greatest Generation....they that banded together, sent massive armies around the world and kicked *** in less time than it takes a state government populated by boomers to build a simple bridge.

Its a very thought provoking book. It was written in 1997, predicts a lot of what we've seen to date and concurs with the sense of "strange things are afoot at the Circle K" that we're talking about now.

 

[jnordquist]

A La Mode=Mercury Network=AMC

Their study cannot be used to determine reasonable and customary.

Wrong, nowhere close to an AMC

 

[PropertyEconomics]

You really need to read The Fourth Turning.

They make a very compelling argument that generational behaviors are cyclical, and with them cycle periods of crisis and awakening.

The current Awakening generation, the boomers, have lead a very personally focused existence, indulging deeply in very selfish ways; think sex drugs and rock and roll, Yuppies, Tech Stock Day Traders, House Flippers....all boomer centric actives in their day, all greedy at their core. That behavior has precipitated a financial crisis that we can well expect to expand. As the US looses the financial ability to be a super power, other nations will step into the void. Its important to remember that the US is singularly remarkable in that we had great power but were never expansionist. Its not likely that the Chinese or a Pan-Arab nation will share that ethic....I think its pretty obvious they dont, wont, and never will. So yeah, bad stuff is on the way, and the Boomers that are sitting in the halls of power have no generational track record that suggests they are capable of setting aside self to tackle the problem. That's quite simply not the way they were raised.

OTOH, if you look at the generation of kids born in the last 20 years...their cultural upbringing, by people who were the generation after the boomers is much like the ethos that brought about the Greatest Generation....they that banded together, sent massive armies around the world and kicked *** in less time than it takes a state government populated by boomers to build a simple bridge.

Its a very thought provoking book. It was written in 1997, predicts a lot of what we've seen to date and concurs with the sense of "strange things are afoot at the Circle K" that we're talking about now.

You are talking about 20 years .. Im talking about centuries ... read about the great societies in history and you will see that most democracies last not more than 200 years ...

Im just saying ...... history shows us what truly happens to great civilizations

 

[NC Appraising]

I find this interesting also. It's an old HUD statement: http://www.HUD.gov/offices/adm/hudcl...es/97-22ml.txt

FEES

FHA field offices will no longer establish maximum appraisal
fees. However, a lender's charge to the borrower for an
appraisal must be no more than the actual amount charged by and
paid to the appraiser, subject to the fee being reasonable and
customary for an appraisal in the area in which the property is
located. That fee may be included in the closing costs upon
which the mortgage is based. Lenders that utilize their own
staff appraiser may charge a fee to the mortgagor which does not
exceed that which is reasonable and customary in the area.
Lenders utilizing management firms that secure the appraisal on behalf of the lender may only charge the mortgagor the actual amount paid to and received by the appraiser, subject to the reasonable and customary cap. Lenders dealing with service providers which charge reasonable and customary fees but pay the appraiser less than they charge the lender may only have the mortgagor pay what was charged by and paid to the appraiser.


I'm I reading this right?

If I'm not, it's been a long day. If I am...


I think there is a hell of a lot of money that the AMC's and the lenders owe to the borrowers. Get out your check books. Class action lawsuit anyone. HUD 1?


I guess we now know why every AMC puts on their engagement letter "do not discuss the appraisal fee with the borrower" We are ripping them off and taking advantage of them. So please do not discuss the fees. :blush: PS, please do not tell HUD or FHA, thanks.



HELLO!!!!!

 

[NORTON]

I find this interesting also. It's an old HUD statement: http://www.HUD.gov/offices/adm/hudcl...es/97-22ml.txt

FEES

FHA field offices will no longer establish maximum appraisal
fees. However, a lender's charge to the borrower for an
appraisal must be no more than the actual amount charged by and
paid to the appraiser, subject to the fee being reasonable and
customary for an appraisal in the area in which the property is
located. That fee may be included in the closing costs upon
which the mortgage is based. Lenders that utilize their own
staff appraiser may charge a fee to the mortgagor which does not
exceed that which is reasonable and customary in the area.
Lenders utilizing management firms that secure the appraisal on behalf of the lender may only charge the mortgagor the actual amount paid to and received by the appraiser, subject to the reasonable and customary cap. Lenders dealing with service providers which charge reasonable and customary fees but pay the appraiser less than they charge the lender may only have the mortgagor pay what was charged by and paid to the appraiser.


I'm I reading this right?

If I'm not, it's been a long day. If I am...


I think there is a hell of a lot of money that the AMC's and the lenders owe to the borrowers. Get out your check books. Class action lawsuit anyone. HUD 1?


I guess we now know why every AMC puts on their engagement letter "do not discuss the appraisal fee with the borrower" We are ripping them off and taking advantage of them. So please do not discuss the fees. :blush: PS, please do not tell HUD or FHA, thanks.



HELLO!!!!!

how was this never seen before? if they didnt update their stance....wouldn't it still be applicable?

 

[NC Appraising]

The Big AMCs and the bank owned AMCs can do what ever they want, when they want. They are above the law. How dare you question them.



HUD realized what these "new management" companies were. We know them as AMCs. HUD realized that if the lenders wanted to use AMCs, they had better not screw the appraiser over, and had better keep the fees separate. No way around it. Now they can put it as additional closing costs, as I read it above. The AMCs should have no say so in the appraisers fee. Or they realized that AMCs are a for profit corporation, and that they would use the cheapest and newb appraisers that they could find. Forget about quality appraisals, we have money to make.

The AMC and the lender negotiated their fee, and the appraiser and the lender negotiated their fee. The fees are meant to be separate. HUD MUST of knew that the AMCs are greedy and abuse would take place.

This is the way it should have been all along. Acme AMC will get a set $zzz amount for each appraisal that goes through. This rate was set by the AMC and the lender. Appraiser gets a "customary rate" from the lender.
Now if the AMC does not know how to run a business or the CEO is making enough, they cannot just steal it from the appraiser.

Maybe the attorney general or HUD should look into it for fraud.


As HUD has stated before, lenders do not have to use AMCs. The consumer should not have to pay more for an appraisal. If the lenders choose that route, let them pay for it, not the consumer. There are many other cheaper options. Lenders are just making to much profit from owning and using AMCs.