Non FHA; does a fireplace count as a permenant heat source

[residentialguy]

Not trying to be difficult, but some of this appears to be pulled from air. Where does FHA say that?

 

[Randolph Kinney]

I used to live in CA for 12 years up until '95. I understand Big Bear and Arrowhead can freeze...I've skied at both. I haven't skied in La Jolla, though, as it is surrounded on three sides by ocean bluffs and beaches.

"adequate heating" - says nothing about a fireplace not being adequate.

Heating facilities that conformed with applicable law at the
time of installation, maintained in good working order. - so far, nothing has been posted about it not conforming with the law


Are there any physical deficiencies or adverse conditions that affect the livability, soundness, or structural integrity of the property? Does the property generally conform to the neighborhood (functional utility, style, condition, use, construction, etc.)?
As I said, it may have Funct Obs (cureable) - - - but a law breaking, FHA deal killer? Not been shown yet.

Well now, since you lived in California and are familiar with housing, building codes and lending, how many homes had fireplaces only for a heat source?

Have you ever performed an appraisal with a fireplace only as a heat source in any state?

 

[Mike Boyd]

You're not even a tourist. Death Valley is in California. It's the hottest place in the US. And it's only about 30 miles from the coldest place in the US. And where Smokey was living she had to huddle under a blanket with her cats to keep warm... It's freezing in that part of the state in the dead of winter.)

FHA requires a conventional heat source (except in Hawaii and maybe parts of Florida).

9 cat night? (1 dog equals 3 cats for warmth.)

 

[residentialguy]

Well now, since you lived in California and are familiar with housing, building codes and lending, how many homes had fireplaces only for a heat source?

Have you ever performed an appraisal with a fireplace only as a heat source in any state?

I'm not familiar with CA codes...and apparently you aren't either, otherwise you would have pasted a link showing where a fireplace is not up to code as not being adequate...or showing that a heat source is even required in a 50-90 degree area, for that matter

And yes, I have appraised homes where a fireplace was the heat source - in MN.

 

[residentialguy]

I thought wood burning fireplaces were illegal in some parts of So Cal...polution reasons, I believe.

 

[CANative]

There are many areas where you can't install wood burning fireplaces and wood stoves in new construction. In those areas they also have "spare the air day" where you can't use fireplaces and wood stoves.

We're not talking about codes in this thread. If the assignment is for FHA then if there is only wood heat then the property must also have a conventional heating system capable of maintaining at least 50 degrees in any room with plumbing. The lone exception is in certain areas which I think include Hawaii, Guam, Puerto Rico and certain counties in Florida. This is an MPR/MPS requirement.

I've appraised hundreds of homes with wood heat only. Most are in coastal areas but many are in the rural areas. Wood stoves work fine in mild or temperate climates. My house is heated with a wood pellet stove. Still, two of the bedrooms need a portable heater during the coldest parts of the year. We usually turn one on about an hour before going to bed and then turn it off.

 

[residentialguy]

There are many areas where you can't install wood burning fireplaces and wood stoves in new construction. In those areas they also have "spare the air day" where you can't use fireplaces and wood stoves.

We're not talking about codes in this thread.

If it doesn't meet code, then how can illegal "as-is" use pass FHA?

 

[Randolph Kinney]

I'm not familiar with CA codes...and apparently you aren't either, otherwise you would have pasted a link showing where a fireplace is not up to code as not being adequate...or showing that a heat source is even required in a 50-90 degree area, for that matter

And yes, I have appraised homes where a fireplace was the heat source - in MN.

I am familiar enough with the California codes to tell you that you have no idea of what you are talking about.

California Housing Law and Regulations Healthy Homes Provisions

www.healthyhomestraining.org/codes/HH_Codes_CA_9-9-07.pdf

ARTICLE 5. EXISTING BUILDINGS

§ 34. Heating (25 CCR § 34)

(a) Every dwelling unit and guest room used or offered for rent or lease shall be provided with
heating facilities capable of maintaining a minimum room temperature of 70 degrees F at a point
three feet above the floor in all habitable rooms, and when the heating facilities are not under
the control of the tenant or occupant of the building owner and/or manager, shall be required to
provide that heat at a minimum temperature of 70 degrees F, 24 hours a day. These facilities
shall be installed and maintained in a safe condition and in accordance with Chapter 37 of the
Uniform Building Code, the Uniform Mechanical Code, and other applicable laws. No unvented
fuel burning heaters shall be permitted. All heating devices or appliances shall be of the
approved type.



Residential Compliance Manual For California's 2008 Energy Efficiency Standards

Publication Number: CEC-400-2008-016-CMF-REV-I
Effective Date: January 1, 2010

http://www.energy.ca.gov/title24/2008standards/residential_manual.html#HVAC-Alt

4 Building HVAC Requirements

4.1.1 Introduction and Organization

This chapter addresses the requirements for heating, ventilating, and air
conditioning (HVAC) systems. The requirements are presented in this chapter so
that it may serve as a single source of information for mechanical engineers and
mechanical contractors.

The chapter is organized under the following topics:

1. Heating Equipment. The first section addresses the requirements
for heating equipment, including mandatory measures, prescriptive
requirements, and compliance options.

4.2

Heating Equipment

This section addresses the requirements for heating equipment, including
furnaces, boilers, heat pumps and electric resistance equipment.

Equipment Sizing

The Standards require that the outdoor design conditions for load calculations be
selected from Reference Joint Appendix JA2, and that the indoor design
temperature for heating load calculations be 70°F. The outdoor design
temperature must be no lower than the heating winter median of extremes as
listed in the Reference Joint Appendix JA2. If the actual city location for a project
is not included in the Reference Joint Appendix JA2, or if the data given for a
particular city does not match the conditions at the actual site as well as that given
for another nearby city, consult the local building department for guidance.

The load calculations must be submitted with compliance documentation when
requested by the building department. The load calculations may be prepared by
1) the documentation author and submitted to the mechanical contractor, 2) a
mechanical engineer, or 3) the mechanical contractor who is installing the
equipment.
===========================

I believe that California requires 70 degrees Fahrenheit as minimum temperature for all habitable rooms, year round, as measured 3 feet off the floor. You can't convince me a fireplace commonly found in California is sufficient to heat the entire GLA of homes in La Jolla to that minimum, reliably. The state, the county and locality would cite you in a heart beat.

You could never appraise in California, no lender would accept your appraisal.

As for Minnesota, you can try and explain how a fireplace can heat the entire GLA to some minimum temperature, year round.

 

[residentialguy]

I am familiar enough with the California codes to tell you that you have no idea of what you are talking about.

I wasn't talking about anything. I was asking for some proof.

I believe that California requires 70 degrees Fahrenheit as minimum temperature for all habitable rooms, year round, as measured 3 feet off the floor. You can't convince me a fireplace commonly found in California is sufficient to heat the entire GLA of homes in La Jolla to that minimum, reliably. The state, the county and locality would cite you in a heart beat.

Maybe...I'd check to find out to make sure.

You could never appraise in California, no lender would accept your appraisal.

LOL. Yes they would. I would appraise according to the law, my goofy friend.

As for Minnesota, you can try and explain how a fireplace can heat the entire GLA to some minimum temperature, year round.

Some fireplaces are poor. Some are good and will keep the place toasty 80 degrees or more. Obviously you can't have 1 small heat source to heat a mansion. Same is true with any HVAC system.

 

[AnonApprsr]

A fireplace can not be considered a permanent heat source in MN or MA. Unless there is a deeded wood/coal chucker who will live next to the fireplace and PERMANENTLY keep it going. Also, he'll have to have human like thermostat powers.