Non FHA; does a fireplace count as a permenant heat source

[incognito]

If it doesn't meet code, then how can illegal "as-is" use pass FHA?

FHA DOES NOT require that a property meet code...

I can tell you with 100% certainty that there is a line through Florida, just below Indian River and Osceola and Manatee Counties, where FHA and VA DO NOT require any source of heat. The named counties are: Broward, Charlotte, Collier, Dade, Glades, Hendry, Lee, Martin, Monroe, and Palm Beach.

 

[CANative]

Yes he was. And he is in California. The California codes will not allow a fireplace to be used as a primary heating source. The law states that a habitable room is one that can be maintained at a 70 degree Fahrenheit minium 24 hours a day, year round.

You're mixing apples and papayas. You're examples are codes for a certain program and some building codes for new development and construction. An existing property can have wood heat and many such properties sell everyday.

 

[Randolph Kinney]

You're mixing apples and papayas. You're examples are codes for a certain program and some building codes for new development and construction. An existing property can have wood heat and many such properties sell everyday.

I quoted the state code for rental properties, which a duplex typically is.

I also quoted the state building code, which also applies to replacement heating sources of existing properties, not just new construction. Permits are required to install new heating equipment.

You say that wood heat is normal (fireplace only) where you are. Not here in San Diego county. I have had only one property with a wood burning stove with the electric baseboard heat taken out, a purchase in the out back of Vista. The UW conditioned the appraisal and the loan that the electric baseboard heat be restored.

Maybe your experience is like that of Res; anything goes.

 

[CANative]

§ 17912. Scope of Rules and Regulations
Rules and regulations promulgated pursuant to the provisions of this part and building standards
published in the State Building Standards Code, relating to the erection or construction of buildings or
structures, shall not apply to existing buildings or structures or to buildings or structures as to which
construction is commenced or approved prior to the effective date of the rules, regulations, or building
standards, except by act of the Legislature, but rules, regulations, and building standards relating to use,
maintenance, and change of occupancy shall apply to all hotels, motels, lodginghouses, apartment
houses, and dwellings, or portions thereof, and buildings and structures accessory thereto, approved for
construction or constructed before or after the effective date of such rules, regulations, or building
standards.

 

[Randolph Kinney]

§ 17912. Scope of Rules and Regulations
Rules and regulations promulgated pursuant to the provisions of this part and building standards
published in the State Building Standards Code, relating to the erection or construction of buildings or
structures, shall not apply to existing buildings or structures or to buildings or structures as to which
construction is commenced or approved prior to the effective date of the rules, regulations, or building
standards, except by act of the Legislature, but rules, regulations, and building standards relating to use,
maintenance, and change of occupancy shall apply to all hotels, motels, lodginghouses, apartment
houses, and dwellings, or portions thereof, and buildings and structures accessory thereto, approved for
construction or constructed before or after the effective date of such rules, regulations, or building
standards.

What is Title 24?

http://www.dsa.dgs.ca.gov/Code/title24.htm

Title 24 of the California Code of Regulations, known as the California Building Standards Code or just "Title 24," contains the regulations that govern the construction of buildings in California. Title 24 is composed of 12 "parts." Each of these parts is described below.

Part 10 - California Existing Building Code

The California Building Standards Commission (CBSC) adopts certain provisions of the International Existing Building Code, Appendix Chapter A1, Seismic Strengthening Provisions for Unreinforced Masonry Bearing Wall Buildings. Please note that the 2007 Triennial Edition of the California Existing Building Code became effective January 1, 2008.


California Health and Safety Code

http://law.justia.com/california/codes/2009/hsc.html


Health and Safety Code

http://www.hcd.ca.gov/codes/shl/SHLStatutes.htm

DIVISION 13, PART 1.5. REGULATION OF BUILDINGS USED FOR HUMAN HABITATION

CHAPTER 4. APPLICATION AND SCOPE - 17950-17959.6

17950. The provisions of this part, the building standards
published in the State Building Standards Code, or the other rules
and regulations promulgated pursuant to the provisions of this part
which relate to apartment houses, hotels, motels, and dwellings, and
buildings and structures accessory thereto, apply in all parts of the
state.

17951. (a) The governing body of any county or city, including a
charter city, may prescribe fees for permits, certificates, or other
forms or documents required or authorized by this part or rules and
regulations adopted pursuant to this part.

(2) The building department of any city or county may approve an
alternate material, appliance, installation, device, arrangement,
method, or work on a case-by-case basis if it finds that the proposed
design is satisfactory and that each such material, appliance,
installation, device, arrangement, method, or work offered is, for
the purpose intended, at least the equivalent of that prescribed in
the California Building Standards Code or this part in performance,
safety, and for the protection of life and health.


========================


Did you take note of that part that you quoted, "... except by act of the Legislature, but rules, regulations, and building standards relating to use,
maintenance, and change of occupancy shall apply to all hotels, motels, lodginghouses, apartment
houses, and dwellings, ..."?

Did you notice the California Health & Safety code refers back to Title 24?

Did you notice that maintenance is not excluded for existing buildings from Health & Safety requirements?

 

[CANative]

It's your position that a duplex with wood stove heat cannot be sold without updating the heating system, by law?

 

[Randolph Kinney]

It's your position that a duplex with wood stove heat cannot be sold without updating the heating system, by law?

My position is that existing rental dwellings must comply with the state, county and local building codes (unless grandfather) and health and safety regulations.

My position is that existing dwellings must comply with the state, county and local building codes (unless grandfather) and health and safety regulations.

Just because a home was built in 1820 does not exempt it from health and safety requirements of today. If work is to be done today on the home, to add electricity for example, that work must comply with today's building codes and health and safety codes. If that 1820 home is sold today for human habitation with any mortgage financing, it will not be acceptable unless it can pass health and safety codes as of today.

Minimum room temperatures of 70 degrees for habitation 24 hours a day, 365 days a year is a health and safety requirement, today.

My position is a typical fireplace will not meet that requirement, unless you tell me that you have a 500 SF GLA home and an autoloader for the wood to the fireplace. Even then, the home will likely burn down since there is typically no regulating the burn temperature or auto removal of ash.

Changing the discussion to wood burning stove it not what the OP has. The OP has fireplaces for a heat source in a duplex. In California, that is not acceptable.

 

[CANative]

(unless grandfather)

Thank you. That's what I've been saying.