Owner of record in an estate sale

[mark hurlock]

Hello,

I completed an appraisal for estate sale about a month ago. The property settled and the lender/client is running into trouble selling the loan. The investor is insisting that the owner of record should contain the Executor's name as opposed to the name in the tax records.

Any thoughts????

For the record I am awaiting the full title report for chain of ownership, initial info does not contain the executor as owner of record.

It depends,

in some cases, it could be “The Estate Of.....”

In other cases it could be a name or list of names of the actual beneficiaries to the estate, depending on if there is a will and or status of the settlement of the estate at the time you complete the appraisal.

The confusion in this case could be that the beneficiary is also the executor. You need to ask some questions, maybe even visit the recorder of deeds office if necessary. But I would think the estate attorney or executor could get you in the right direction. .

Your state may be different.

 

[sputnam]

The owner of record would be whoever inherited the property. It could be the executor... or not. Could be an individual, a group, an organization, a company. Only certain way to find out is to check with the probate (or whatever it is in your state) department at the clerk of court.

 

[Mark K]

If John Smith was the owner and died, until a new deed is recorded, the owner is The Estate of John Smith. John Smith no longer owns anything, his estate does, so putting John Smith as the owner is incorrect.

If you want to include the PR's name, you could put "The Estate of John Smith with John Doe as Personal Representative (Executor, etc. can go here if you chose.)".

The PR or the Executor does not necessarily become the owner, just the manager of the estate.

If the owner was The John Smith Trust, ownership does not change when John Smith dies.

 

[Peter LeQuire]

In this state, the estate of a deceased person comes into existence on the date of that person's death, and from that data forward the legal entity that owns the property is the estate of that person. Nothing can happen with an estate until it is entered into probate, and an executor named (either in the will) or appointed( if the deceased was intestate) by a court of appropriate jurisdiction). And there is generally a lag between the date of death of and the opening of probate. And, in general, executors/personal representatives don't deed the property of the estate to themselves.

And the current question about changing the name of the owner on the appraisal - IF the appraisal had an effective date on or after the date of death of the owner, I would not argue about doing so, assuming I had a title opinion (or other document) that showed the estate as the record owner (here, it would generally be included in the conditions under which title insurance would be issued - "Properly executed warranty deed from Joe Blow, personal representative <or executor> of the estate of........). It would be no different from being asked to acknowledge some changed circumstance since the report date, as, for example, adding the name of a spouse if the "record" owner had married since acquiring the property and had not recorded a deed from herself to herself and her husband. It simply acknowledges the factual situation on the effective date of the appraisal.

It would be different if the effective date of the appraisal preceded the date of death of the owner.

 

[HF Mudd]

The owner of record is the owner noted on the last deed filed.

You can explain the situation in an addendum, but unless a new deed has been filed, it is what it is.

I don't know with certainty that the owner of record is deceased, who the owner of record named as their executor, who the heirs are, etc., and I'm not about to take on any potential liability just so that ABC Lending can re-sell their paper.

 

[PhillyApp]

Thanks for all the help, I appreciate the responses.

Update: I went back to the lender and stated that I could add additional commentary in the addendum, but would not change the name from the owner of record on the effective date...They agreed with me and are fighting it out with the investor.

Thanks

 

[Peter LeQuire]

The owner of record is the owner noted on the last deed filed.

Not necessarily: there can be events that create an ownership interest in real property that do not require the recording of a deed - such as a marriage of an owner, or, as in the present discussion, the death of the owner. Perhaps, in the daily conduct of our business, we look no further than the information that is readily available in the "normal" course of business (such as an online records data service, or, perhaps, a phone call to the recorder's office) to satisfy the convention that we note the record owner: that does not change the fact that there may be circumstances in which such information may not be current or accurate.

(Most states are "first to the court house states" in which the last recorded deed is that of the owner: there are some states that are "notice" states, in which, as I understand it, this is not always the case.)

In the current discussion, I think the lender/investor is being unnecessarily careful: the change of ownership on the date of death is immaterial to establishing lien priority: that is accomplished by the title attorney and/or the attorney that draws up the instrument conveying title.

 

[HF Mudd]

Not necessarily: there can be events that create an ownership interest in real property that do not require the recording of a deed - such as a marriage of an owner, or, as in the present discussion, the death of the owner. Perhaps, in the daily conduct of our business, we look no further than the information that is readily available in the "normal" course of business (such as an online records data service, or, perhaps, a phone call to the recorder's office) to satisfy the convention that we note the record owner: that does not change the fact that there may be circumstances in which such information may not be current or accurate.

(Most states are "first to the court house states" in which the last recorded deed is that of the owner: there are some states that are "notice" states, in which, as I understand it, this is not always the case.)

In the current discussion, I think the lender/investor is being unnecessarily careful: the change of ownership on the date of death is immaterial to establishing lien priority: that is accomplished by the title attorney and/or the attorney that draws up the instrument conveying title.

I believe that we are discussing the owner of Record.

If we are discussing the owner of Record, then it's reasonable to assume that it must be Recorded to be a Record.

 

[Lee Lansford]

...

And I believe the "owner of public record" means exactly that. When you prepare the appraisal you check the public records available in the normal course of business and report who the owner is shown to be. You do not guess who the owner should be or what the record should show or when the record should have been updated. You report who is shown in public records.

You also explain in the contract analysis section that the seller on the contract is different than the owner of public record and disclose any info you may have to explain that. Like the executor of the estate, etc.

But, you are not a lawyer or a coroner or title examiner and it is not up to you to report someone as 'owner of public record' when you have no verifiable data supporting that claim.

May I offer you a big "Amen!"?

 

[mark hurlock]

I believe that we are discussing the owner of Record.

If we are discussing the owner of Record, then it's reasonable to assume that it must be Recorded to be a Record.

I think what PL is trying to learn you is that a will can be the instrument of transfer at the time of death. Wills can be recorded. Your state laws may vary. Just because I have not recorded a new deed does not mean I am not the owner upon death if I am a beneficiary. I agree the bank is nitpicking here because the title search must account for the chain of title.

But even if it is nitpicking, it is still a matter of accuracy. Nothing wrong with accuracy.