Verifying Sales

[DTB]

What are you talking about? They do too. Why wouldn't the selling agent tell me what was wrong with the house??? Even the listing agent will tell me if some work was needed. The house is sold...they have no more skin in the game. They want good appraisals...falsely glorifying comps would only hurt them. I can't believe how biased some of you are against realtors. And no, I'm not a realtor...never have been.

I was a broker for 2+ years, I'm not biased against them. I also don't expect them to contradict much beyond, oh yeah there was 2 points paid by the seller, I forgot to put that in the MLS.

The house is sold they have no more skin in the game, BULL! If they misrepresented something in the transaction, they can still be in trouble. That's why you won't get the juicy secrets you seek.

They want good appraisals.:laugh: Good appraisals are the ones that close their deals.

Appraisers are really not able to verify anything, it is all 2nd hand data except your field visit of the subject property. Suppose you're called to defend a report, which may hold more weight? The MLS listing available for all to see and use or some notes you took of a conversation with an agent who does not remember even speaking to you?

 

[ucbruin]

I have mentioned averaging 12+ hours per appraisal ... actually my average last year was around 17hrs.

Do you have the time and/or desire to expand on your 17+/appraisal average? Are you saying for a cookie cutter property you spend 17+ hours completely dedicated to that report or are you saying from the time you start your appraisal process to the time you submit the report is 17 hours? Would some of those hours include doing other things while you wait to hear back from the agents/buyers/sellers? Or you are constantly working on the report?

Complex assignments make up 80%+ of my work as locally the cookie-cutters get snapped up by appraisers working for AMCs or charging under $300/appraisal.

I would rather spend 17+ hours on a more complex report than have to do THREE cookie-cutters to make the money as I have done the math and make more per hour avoiding the cookie-cutters (and low fees, and gas, liability, etc). Just FYI.

From the above quote its apparent to me that we have been talking apples to oranges. My responses have been geared towards tract cookie cutter properties located in cookie cutter neighborhoods with cookie cutter sales prices and sales comps. And it now appears that you have geared your responses towards complex properties. I would venture to say that most residential refi appraisals are for cookie cutters. Come on, get over your bad self.

 

[Eli]

I was a broker for 2+ years, I'm not biased against them. I also don't expect them to contradict much beyond, oh yeah there was 2 points paid by the seller, I forgot to put that in the MLS.

The house is sold they have no more skin in the game, BULL! If they misrepresented something in the transaction, they can still be in trouble. That's why you won't get the juicy secrets you seek.

They want good appraisals.:laugh: Good appraisals are the ones that close their deals.

Appraisers are really not able to verify anything, it is all 2nd hand data except your field visit of the subject property. Suppose you're called to defend a report, which may hold more weight? The MLS listing available for all to see and use or some notes you took of a conversation with an agent who does not remember even speaking to you?

What about when the MLS has no notes other than LP/SP and that sort of data that is all a quickie appraiser has time to get anyway? The appraiser calling always has more data than the appraiser not calling including MLS notes if any, unless of course an appraiser has first hand knowledge like you mention.

 

[residentialguy]

The house is sold they have no more skin in the game, BULL! If they misrepresented something in the transaction, they can still be in trouble. That's why you won't get the juicy secrets you seek.

Wrong. The selling agent has no problem telling the problems with the house. It's not his listing.

 

[ucbruin]

Well, if GLA is an issue then wouldn't you need to call all the agents before doing the MLS search?
Or before pairing things down after selecting all SFRs? :laugh:

Obviously being sarcastic there.

What takes more time and what gives more "accurate" info?
Appraisers search then select comparable sales of comparable properties.
If I do an initial search based on proximity, style & size I have just eliminated a bunch of properties, which is why I often do proximity first, select a few to consider in immediate area, then reduce selections by size & style. Now I have a list of 15+ potentials (sometimes 40+) which I print a list of and mark each one how comparable or not comparable based on relative factors (loc, dos, GLA, year built, site size, type of sale (REO, estate, etc, if listed), and so forth) ... why call before now as I am still paring down? Finally I have a list of the 6-15 most comparable and, from an efficiency standpoint, if a call takes "15 minutes" (some are actually under 5 min, some are well over 15min) and while out inspecting the subject each comp adds less than 5 min time, when would you think it would be more efficient to call, before or after paring the comps down even further?

So, you get back and start typing them in and finish your desktop research on each comp, entering them into the matrix before making your calls. Why?

Well, why VERIFY when you don't know what to ask?
If you don't know #6 seems low, # 8 seems high, and # 4 may or may not have a roof issue and #2 indicates a seller paid how do you know what to ask?

To me calling is usually what I do after doing my initial pass entering all the data and starting to analyze generally and before doing the main write-up of the report, aka the point where you stop, set it aside, and ponder while you do other things (like get started on the next report). Adds 2-3 days to the process, but that can not be helped when doing due diligence & verifying data. (and that is why so many of the CGs and other appraisers m2: in regards to 48hr turn times)

If I understand correctly the steps you take in your appraisal process: before you inspect the subject property you run sales data and prior to inspecting the subject you've pre-selected "X" number of sales to photograph.

Here's what I don't understand:If information found on MLS, public records, assessor field cards, is not to be trusted for the comps, why do you trust them for the subject before you inspect it?

I would have thought your process would have been to accept the assign and look up data for the subject property and only for the subject property. Then after you've completed the inspection, you go back to the office and run sales data. This way you have verified the subject's correct physical characteristics and you can now run your data search using the verified data to compare to. In your scenario, you do as most form fillers do, you select possible comps before even inspecting the subject property. And then you call agents to "verify"/justify your pre-inspection sales data. Inconsistencies in responses make me question their validity.

And I'm talking cookie cutter properties not the complex properties that you work on. For complex properties, I would think pre-inspection sales selection would be of little to no value to someone with your appraisal beliefs.

 

[Eli]

Wrong. The selling agent has no problem telling the problems with the house. It's not his listing.

Agents on expired/withdrawn are very valuable sometimes.

 

[ucbruin]

What about when the MLS has no notes other than LP/SP and that sort of data that is all a quickie appraiser has time to get anyway? The appraiser calling always has more data than the appraiser not calling including MLS notes if any, unless of course an appraiser has first hand knowledge like you mention.

If you think this is a good and valid comparable to the subject and you would like to employ it in your report, then yes, this is the sale to make the phone call on. This example is a no brainer. No one would argue against your excellent point.

 

[Papoua Jose]

There are many appraisers who were never trained to verify a sale. There are many appraisers who have never been exposed to the correct way of doing things including verifying a sale. There are many appraisers who would call what you are describing as Scope Creep.
.

There are many appraisers who think if the data or answer to a question is not available online then "not available through the reasonable course of business" applies.

 

[Eli]

If I understand correctly the steps you take in your appraisal process: before you inspect the subject property you run sales data and prior to inspecting the subject you've pre-selected "X" number of sales to photograph.

Here's what I don't understand:If information found on MLS, public records, assessor field cards, is not to be trusted for the comps, why do you trust them for the subject before you inspect it?

I would have thought your process would have been to accept the assign and look up data for the subject property and only for the subject property. Then after you've completed the inspection, you go back to the office and run sales data. This way you have verified the subject's correct physical characteristics and you can now run your data search using the verified data to compare to. In your scenario, you do as most form fillers do, you select possible comps before even inspecting the subject property. And then you call agents to "verify"/justify your pre-inspection sales data. Inconsistencies in responses make me question their validity.

And I'm talking cookie cutter properties not the complex properties that you work on. For complex properties, I would think pre-inspection sales selection would be of little to no value to someone with your appraisal beliefs.

Happens all the time with me. Preliminary analysis is a crap shoot. I've read enough of some of these guys posts to know it is with them too. Quickie don't have time for anything much more than preliminary analysis.

 

[residentialguy]

Here's what I don't understand:If information found on MLS, public records, assessor field cards, is not to be trusted for the comps, why do you trust them for the subject before you inspect it?

Verifying does not mean distrust. "Trust, but verify". While the listing information might be considered reliable, we are to perform additional research to verify that such information is accurate. You know there can be mistakes. I've seen listings that put the wrong house on it. This is really not a hard concept, but I think you know that. You don't want to put in that extra effort and time, otherwise your AMC fees aren't worth it.