Verifying Sales

[DTB]

What about when the MLS has no notes other than LP/SP and that sort of data that is all a quickie appraiser has time to get anyway? The appraiser calling always has more data than the appraiser not calling including MLS notes if any, unless of course an appraiser has first hand knowledge like you mention.

It gets a little murky when the agent uh, I think there was a concession but I'm not sure and those records are kept off site. I'll check them when I get a chance...cue Jeopardy theme.

Now what. you have an MLS sheet w/o concession, a possible, maybe, I'm not sure about a concession on the phone. What are you using? Throwing out the comp is not an option-it's the best one you have.

 

[ucbruin]

Here's what I don't understand:If information found on MLS, public records, assessor field cards, is not to be trusted for the comps, why do you trust them for the subject before you inspect it?

Verifying does not mean distrust. "Trust, but verify". While the listing information might be considered reliable, we are to perform additional research to verify that such information is accurate. You know there can be mistakes. I've seen listings that put the wrong house on it. This is really not a hard concept, but I think you know that. You don't want to put in that extra effort and time, otherwise your AMC fees aren't worth it.

I think we may have reached a point of common agreement. Yes, trust but verify is a necessary step. I hope every appraiser verifies.

There are several sources one can employ to verify. It's not just with agents. Agents are a good source but not the end all to be all.

 

[Eli]

It gets a little murky when the agent uh, I think there was a concession but I'm not sure and those records are kept off site. I'll check them when I get a chance...cue Jeopardy theme.

Now what. you have an MLS sheet w/o concession, a possible, maybe, I'm not sure about a concession on the phone. What are you using? Throwing out the comp is not an option-it's the best one you have.

I do what your indicating you do. If the market shows concessions not typical, I probably don't call for concessions verification unless the sale appears above market. I forget it and move on. If the market shows concessions typical, I try to reach the other agent if there is one or another party and if I can't, I use it and move on. It happens where they don't remember things but many times they will get back to you. If it is the best comp I have and it could have a significant impact on value, and they say they will get back with me, I would put the client on hold.

 

[residentialguy]

I think we may have reached a point of common agreement. Yes, trust but verify is a necessary step. I hope every appraiser verifies.

There are several sources one can employ to verify. It's not just with agents. Agents are a good source but not the end all to be all.

What are the sources that you use to verify?

 

[ucbruin]

What are the sources that you use to verify?

MLS, assessor records, registry of deeds. On odd ball sales or if information is lacking on MLS listing sheets, if I have a question, I'll call the agents. The best source for buyer/seller motivation are the buyer/seller but I don't contact them.

 

[Don Clark]

I once had a conversation with a senior reviewer at an AMC company who said they do not provide the level of review that would have discovered your particular issue.

I was told they only review it for technical issues, like will it past the automated program without getting flagged for not checking a box on the form.

If this is true, how can you hold them to a higher standard of review? I am assuming the lender/client established the extent of review to be performed by an AMC when they contracted to provide their service.

I appreciate your desire to improve the profession and feel the answer to some of these questions may lead you to a solution.

Mark,

That is absolutely true for most if not all AMC's. They do not generally have anyone on staff that can do a Std-3 Review and likely never do such a review.

As far as the OP's comment about VA Appraisers. VA Appraisers have their appraisals subject to review in at least 2 ways. The SAR(Staff Appraisal Reviewer), also known as the Underwriter does a review. Every appraisers report is also subject to a review by a Senior Staff Appraiser at the Regional Loan Center. not very appraisal, but many of each appraisers appraisals are reviewed in that way. They are also subject to a field Review. Not all are field reviewed but many are. No AMC will ever provide that level of review. Since the OP does VA work, the OP shoulkd inquire of the SAR for his/her company as to whether or not that company SAR is doing their job.

The OP should consider.....how many AMC appraisers have been taken off the AMC approved list for poor quality work? Bet no AMC will tell the OP that.

As far as verification, many times it is almost impossible to get in touch with anyone in the process....Realtor's, buyers, sellers even in a property listed in the MLS. Buyers and sellers are even more difficult, and having their names and numbers to call them is almost never available. Also, AMC's want a turn time of generally 48 hours. It is virtually impossible to do the necessary verifications that a lender client would want in that time frame.

It may not be a solution but if lenders would manage the appraisal ordering and review process themselves, many of the OP's complaints might go away. Hiring AMC's who hire the "fastest and cheapest" to do the work is not a solution.

 

[residentialguy]

MLS, assessor records, registry of deeds. On odd ball sales or if information is lacking on MLS listing sheets, if I have a question, I'll call the agents. The best source for buyer/seller motivation are the buyer/seller but I don't contact them.

Have you not been reading my posts??? Those are NOT considered verification sources, those are all data sources. You are failing the requirements that you agreed to.

I'll post this FNMA requirement yet again. Please read them.


Sources of Comparable Market Data

Examples of Data sources include:
a multiple listing service, deed records, tax records, realtors, builders, appraisers, appraiser’s files, and the Internet.

Examples of Verification sources include:
the buyer, seller, listing agent, selling agent (and closing documents in certain situations).

There must be sufficient data to understand:
- the conditions of sale
- the existence of financing concessions
- the physical characteristics of the subject property,
- and whether it was an arms-length transaction.

 

[ucbruin]

Have you not been reading my posts??? Those are NOT considered verification sources, those are all data sources. You are failing the requirements that you agreed to.

I'll post this FNMA requirement yet again. Please read them.


Sources of Comparable Market Data

Examples of Data sources include:
a multiple listing service, deed records, tax records, realtors, builders, appraisers, appraiser’s files, and the Internet.

Examples of Verification sources include:
the buyer, seller, listing agent, selling agent (and closing documents in certain situations).

There must be sufficient data to understand:
- the conditions of sale
- the existence of financing concessions
- the physical characteristics of the subject property,
- and whether it was an arms-length transaction.

All if not most of the 4 items you cite are usually on the MLS listing sheet. What I don't understand is why you trust the words coming out of the mouth of the sales person who place his/her "ad" in the MLS and not what is written in the MLS. Including photos. Transaction types, in most cases, be found in assessor data base. They indicate if intra-family, arms-length, etc. Registry of deeds can also be helpful. I don't understand why you place 100% trust in your conversation with the same agent who placed the written "ad". I applaud you calling every agent. At the end of the day, if you and I appraised the same cookie cutter home, I bet our appraised values would be within a small percentage of one another.

 

[ucbruin]

Have you not been reading my posts??? Those are NOT considered verification sources, those are all data sources. You are failing the requirements that you agreed to.

I'll post this FNMA requirement yet again. Please read them.


Sources of Comparable Market Data

Examples of Data sources include:
a multiple listing service, deed records, tax records, realtors, builders, appraisers, appraiser’s files, and the Internet.

Examples of Verification sources include:
the buyer, seller, listing agent, selling agent (and closing documents in certain situations).

There must be sufficient data to understand:
- the conditions of sale
- the existence of financing concessions
- the physical characteristics of the subject property,
- and whether it was an arms-length transaction.

Information for most, if not all, of the 4 items you cite can usually be found on the MLS listing sheet. I don't understand why you place 100% trust in your conversation with the same agent who placed the written "ad". I applaud you for calling every agent. At the end of the day, if you and I appraised the same cookie cutter home, I bet our appraised values would be within a small percentage of one another.

 

[ucbruin]

Sorry, my post #188 was sent in error.