What would be considered health or safety hazards in a gutted bathroom?

[Non Sequitur]

It's kind of ironic, but my house sounds very similar to this situation. Bought the house 4 years ago and totally gutted and remodeled it.....with the exception of the master bath. It's a total shell. It has been like this for 3 years now. We have 2 other full baths and it simply acts as a closet. I would have a really hard time with my house being classified as C5 just because the master bath is a shell(everything else has been replaced).
PS I don't think I can hold off the wife any longer....after 3 years I'm going to get this completed over the summer

So where does it fit in UAD? Read the guidance, an as-is with cost to cure is about as credible as the old "only 5 acres" practice. We used to have near constant debates about that until Fannie finally issued a Q&A.

So is your property a C3 or C4? Would someone down the line agree that a gutted/shell m-bath is normal wear and tear? Or is it a C3/C4 with a subject to?

No one claims UAD is perfect, but we have it due to exactly this kind of situation and the insistence of to many appraisers that "average" means whatever they say it means.

In this situation and many others, there's no language in the definitions that covers gutted baths (or any room). So an appraiser has to make a call. If the gutted bath is normal wear and tear then there's no cost to cure since normal wear and tear is expected in C3/C4. If it isn't normal wear and tear it falls outside of C1-C4. Whether or not you agree doesn't matter, it's what Fannie wants reported. And they don't want an as-is value with a cost to cure.

That we know....a bath being renovated does not fall into that scenario.

A bath in the middle of a renovation doesn't fall within requirements for existing construction? The link gives guidance and examples, a gutted bath isn't specifically mentioned (or a host of other conditions) so you have to make a call; is it a minor condition or deferred maintenance or is it an incomplete item or condition?

 

[Mike Garrett RAA]

It certainly would affect the marketability...as in "present value in present condition".

 

[MoJo]

That we know....a bath being renovated does not fall into that scenario.

A bath being renovated is an incomplete item and absolutely does fall into that scenario.

Guidelines clearly indicate when there are incomplete items, the property must be appraised subject to completion of the specific alterations.

 

[residentialguy]

A bath being renovated is an incomplete item and absolutely does fall into that scenario.

Guidelines clearly indicate when there are incomplete items, the property must be appraised subject to completion of the specific alterations.

Please post a link to these guidelines you speak of.

 

[Non Sequitur]

Please post a link to these guidelines you speak of.

He did post a link, here's the language: "When there are incomplete items or conditions that do affect the safety, soundness, or structural integrity of the property, the property must be appraised subject to completion of the specific alterations or repairs. These items can include a partially completed addition or renovation, or physical deficiencies that could affect the safety, soundness, or structural integrity of the improvements, including but not limited to, cracks or settlement in the foundation, water seepage, active roof leaks, curled or cupped roof shingles, or inadequate electrical service or plumbing fixtures.

Fannie guidelines give two choices with how to report the gutted bath, and as-is with a cost to cure isn't one of them.

 

[residentialguy]

Not applicable. An unfinished bath does not affect the safety, soundness, or structural integrity of the property. If the flooring was missing and there was a large hole to the basement, then it would.

 

[Non Sequitur]

Not applicable. An unfinished bath does not affect the safety, soundness, or structural integrity of the property.

What are you looking for? "These items can include a partially completed addition or renovation" isn't good enough for you? It's that or it fits into the deferred maintenance items that do not affect the safety, soundness, or structural integrity of the property which include, but are not limited to, worn floor finishes or carpet, minor plumbing leaks, holes in window screens, or cracked window glass and are typically due to normal wear and tear?

Neither are perfect fits, but one is a better fit. So it's basically a C3/C4 with a subject to or a C5 as-is.

 

[residentialguy]

If the flooring was missing and there was a large hole to the basement, then it would. The operative word is "could" and "can". Do you see how all the examples are dangerous? An no, it doesn't fit the other. It is not mentioned, therefore it can't be held against you.

What the heck are you so worried about? It's not big enough $ for a lawsuit. Probably not big enough $ to even make an adjustment. If it's cool with the client, send it out as-is - C4 with contributory value factored in....subtract that 80 sf out of the GLA even. Whatever.

 

[Non Sequitur]

If the flooring was missing and there was a large hole to the basement, then it would. The operative word is "could" and "can". Do you see how all the examples are dangerous? An no, it doesn't fit the other. It is not mentioned, therefore it can't be held against you.

So where does it fit in the UAD? You have to chose, can't leave that part of the report blank. And if you're hoping Fannie won't hold it against you because a gutted bath isn't specifically mentioned in the guidance, you're dreaming.

What the heck are you so worried about? It's not big enough $ for a lawsuit. Probably not big enough $ to even make an adjustment.

So it's not "big enough" for a lawsuit or adjustment but it's "big enough" for the borrower to refinance his home for? And it's big enough that several lenders have told the OP no loan with a gutted bath. And big enough has nothing to do with it, it's a reporting requirement.

 

[residentialguy]

Yes, a high-end bathroom can be quite costly. Cost to cure the issue...not so much.

It fits fine in the UAD. The unit as a whole was a C4. "The appraiser should select the rating that best reflects the property as a whole and in its entirety."

Fannie is silent and has nothing to trump that