AQB Update On Proposed Changes To Appraiser Qualifications

[J Grant]

A degree itself does not make someone more educated (in regards to the applicable profession), ethical, intelligent, objective than someone without one.

A degree won't change an unethical person to an ethical one. There is likely an equal spread of unethical folks with or without degrees.

For everyone else who might be swayed in the wrong direction, college courses touch on many ethical issues, and the studying and exposure can make one more educated providing a good base for any field, as well as increase reasoning around objectivity. A person without a degree can get life experiences or education equal to a degree but a degree is a uniform proof of the accomplishment.

A degree does not guarantee high earnings or a job, and we all know people without degrees that out earn some with degrees or start their own business etc. Some fields requiring a degree are not high pay but offer other rewards . Overall studies though show college grads have higher income and less unemployment than those without, which would put them in a better position to negotiate and withstand client pressures as well as influence public perception of the field..

 

[George Hatch]

There are a lot of jobs out there for which the college degree requirement have been added simply because the employers were in a position to do so; not because the requisite skills for that job are any greater now than they were 15 years ago when the worker was a HS dropout.

As is currently the case for SFR appraising.

The requisite skills have not changed. Some of the people who got in 10 years ago would never have gotten in 20 or 30 years ago, so I strongly disagree with citing them as what's been typical for non-degreed SFR appraisers.

The only thing I'd agree with is that the participation award mentality at both the HS and college level have resulted in a general degradation of skills, so that now you have HS grads who graduated despite never attaining a 10th grade reading/writing proficiency, and some college grads who still don't write as well as the top 25% of HS grads.

As I say - we have posters IN THIS THREAD who didn't have college when they started appraising, and at least a couple of them are way smarter and have much stronger communication and reasoning skills than a couple of the college grads we have in this thread. You can spit in their face and tell them they were or are still uneducated scum, but I disagree. Strongly.

 

[Joe Flacco]

Nobody can argue that a person without a college degree is unable to become a very competent appraiser. That's not what this is about.

There is also no point talking about 20 or 30 years ago and today. We are not in the 80's or 90's. Things have changed. College degree today is almost like a high school diploma from the 80's.

 

[J Grant]

As I say - we have posters IN THIS THREAD who didn't have college when they started appraising, and at least a couple of them are way smarter and have much stronger communication and reasoning skills than a couple of the college grads we have in this thread. You can spit in their face and tell them they were or are still uneducated scum, but I disagree. Strongly.

NOBODY, including me, or any of the folks advocating are disagreeing with you on this last point. I also think that those people you reference would be standouts in any field.

You refuse to acknowledge the fact that despite a segment of appraisers lacking degrees who are way smarter /better, there are many without degrees that may be stupider or lack reasoning skills, who bring the field down to their level of pay and public/client perception rather than the other way around.

To escape this, many of the lacking degree appraisers of whom you speak have gotten degrees since they became appraisers, and or earned an SRA or cert gen license. If they needed a degree now to get into appraising, these more motivated, above average folks would get it.

If all a college degree req accomplishes is protecting the profession going forward against an over supply of trainees and offers some leverage regarding fees and dealing with client pressures, that is enough. The reality is that the on the res license side, the appraisal profession lacking a degree requirement has fared horribly.

 

[Joe Flacco]

Real estate appraisal is financial services. What we do has a impact on peoples finances. The public expects qualifications other than a high school diploma when somebody is dealing with their personal finances.

The main point is we are failing to maintain public trust and we need to fix it.

 

[Joe Flacco]

It also pisses me off when I hear a 80's or 90's appraiser saying that we want the college degree requirement for selfish economic reasons (higher fees). I am sure it is easy to say that for anybody that purchased their home in the 90's and is now nearing retirement with property values and cost of living having doubled or tripled and fees maybe 25% more today than the 90's.

 

[J Grant]

Protecting the economic interests of a profession and protesting the public trust are not mutually exclusive. One reinforces the other and advocates generally want both to occur. ( I went to college, if that matters)

A low paid, low regard profession won't attract good people no matter their education level,

 

[George Hatch]

I'm about to say something I've never said on this forum, so I apologize in advance to everyone I am about to offend.

It was the informal culture in the AI of competition control and the idea that increased qualifications ensured ethical performance that prompted me to undertake a lifetime vow to never associate with that organization. And I never have. So when some of you raise exactly the same rationales that ties into an argument I never agreed with in the first place. Except that this time its's way worse because you're no longer talking about a professional org that people can choose to opt in or opt out of, but a licensing program that uses the powers of the state to regulate who can and can't do this work.

Although I disagree with the idea at the professional org level I support their right to run their org as they see fit, and I don't criticize them for that. I'm only saying I never wanted to associate myself with that culture for that reason. That's why there's no way I'm going to support either of those arguments in a licensing program. I think it's an abuse of the powers of government.

There are other arguments to be made for increasing the academic minimums for entry into the appraisal profession that I WOULD support if/when they can be proven, which so far has not been the case. AFAICT

And for the last time, just because I want the AQB to consider providing an alternate pathway for that element of appraiser qualifications it doesn't make me anti-education. IMO I think it makes me anti-arrogant.

 

[The Warrior Monk]

The requisite skills have not changed. Some of the people who got in 10 years ago would never have gotten in 20 or 30 years ago, so I strongly disagree with citing them as what's been typical for non-degreed SFR appraisers.

I'm missing the point here. Speaking on in regards to the downstate NY area, 30 years ago it was difficult to get into the business. That was prior to licensing, and designations and affiliations with certain appraisals organizations mattered. College degrees weren't necessarily required, but if one had one, the path toward designation was much easier (or required, depending on designation and time frame).

In regard to 20 years ago, that was just about the time of the tech boom, and also about the time the real estate boom started, and also an notable increase in the demand for appraisers. If one had a pulse and could fog a mirror, they could, and did, enter the business. Entry requirements were minimal, and no college education was required.

Ten years ago basically coincides with the real estate bust. The reason for not being able to enter at that time was solely economic. Education requirements don't matter when there are no jobs to be had.

The only thing I'd agree with is that the participation award mentality at both the HS and college level have resulted in a general degradation of skills, so that now you have HS grads who graduated despite never attaining a 10th grade reading/writing proficiency, and some college grads who still don't write as well as the top 25% of HS grads.

IMHO, you just made an argument why a college degree should be required. In other words, the high school degree is the not what it was, so the college degree is the new high school degree.

As I say - we have posters IN THIS THREAD who didn't have college when they started appraising, and at least a couple of them are way smarter and have much stronger communication and reasoning skills than a couple of the college grads we have in this thread. You can spit in their face and tell them they were or are still uneducated scum, but I disagree. Strongly.

When discussing professions and the rules/regulations pertaining to them, it is best to discuss them in the context of what is best for the profession, not particular individuals. Are their high-school dropouts that have better communication skills than college grads? Of course. Are there high-school dropouts that have better reasoning skills than college grads? Of course.

But statistically, I don't think one is going to find that high-school grads/dropouts have stronger reasoning, writing, reading, communication, etc. skills compared to other professions. Anecdotes don't make a good basis for general rule-making.

I am one for looking at the big picture. What have the other professions that can be deemed reasonably similar to appraising done over time? Use that information as a basis for determining the most reasonable course of action.

 

[George Hatch]

If we're going to argue the merits of increased qualifications in a licensing program above those that have been in place for the last 20 years and more recently for the last 9 years then the burden of proof for demonstrating the *necessity* of those additional changes rests with the people making them. The 2008 changes for the CRs were aimed at improving - at a minimum - the fundamental skills in the 5 areas of specific study at the college level. What *additional* skills are necessary for competent appraisal practice at the SFR appraising level?

Show me the data in support of these goals and we can discuss it. We cannot discuss on equal terms - and yes, I've been doing it, too - our anecdotal observations. Feelz don't count.

And while we're having that discussion let us not lose sight of the point that the role and stated purpose of a licensing program is different than the wider role of a professional org. As they should be.