Union Time?

[J Grant]

Plenty of "free markets" are populated by liars and scalawags...usually they are weeded out, which may or maybe not be happening quickly enough for appraisers dealing the AMC's.

Enron, Bernie Madoff, the recent Wells Fargo scandals anyone? A free market means free to not just compete, but free to rig policy, shape laws in favor of entities , skirt the law and evade regulations to make maximum profit. Those who do so are free of any morality or constraints except the fear of getting caught. And that can be mitigated by getting seats on the very boards that are supposed to protect the public trust.

 

[bnmappraisal]

9 pages and 80+ posts later ... only 14 votes - 3 of which "I don't care. I just thought this thread..."

Interesting

I am one of the NO votes - maybe because I have no problem with "Vito"

 

[Deleted member 122624]

That would be a positive benefit, for sure.
But just to be clear: It was the AGA that assisted you and not your E&O carrier or their legal representation?

Not my E&O. Never contacted them. Contacted the AGA and ga e them all my info. Had them review my report and they also wrote a letter for me. State found nothing. Done.

 

[George Hatch]

Yes, there is an abundance of evidence that the AMC will lie to an appraiser. With my very limited AMC experience, I have observed AMC lies as to lender conditions, lender fees allowed, tat allowed and generally a very poor level of appraisal comprehension that the AMC tries to foist off on the lender. There is more to the story whether or not an AMC can and will place an order with another appraiser. Fee issues are just one element of the matter.

So is it your opinion that the AMC that tells you that if you won't do it for that fee they'll find someone else who will invariably knows in advance that they will be unable to find that substitute? Seriously?

Nobody is arguing that the AMCs don't fish for the lowest fees - they do. But if the $300 bait they're dangling never works for them then why would any of you complain about $300 fees?

And then we get to the examples of the markets that have appraiser shortages. Nobody questions the mechanism that enables THOSE fees increases, so that apparently puts the lie to the idea that the AMCs can just dictate terms to the appraisers regardless of the supply/demand. Apparently the grand market manipulation conspiracy doesn't work everywhere.

Come on, folks. WYSIWYG

 

[gregb]

It is not my opinion that the AMC that tells me that if I won't do it for that fee they will find someone else, it is a lie unless they are able to do so. All part of the negotiating process. The AMC calls me back in 2 days and says we decided to use you. What conclusion would anyone with a brain draw? The AMC shops, nothing new about that. My lender clients may shop fee and tat, trust me the feeling is different.

Slay me GH, when was the last time, if ever, you have accepted an assignment from an AMC?

 

[chad hampton]

If you vote in favor of the status quo, you're part of the problem. That AMC's appreciate your support.

 

[George Hatch]

It is not my opinion that the AMC that tells me that if I won't do it for that fee they will find someone else, it is a lie unless they are able to do so. All part of the negotiating process. The AMC calls me back in 2 days and says we decided to use you. What conclusion would anyone with a brain draw? The AMC shops, nothing new about that. My lender clients may shop fee and tat, trust me the feeling is different.

Slay me GH, when was the last time, if ever, you have accepted an assignment from an AMC?

Last question first: Obviously I have never accepted an assignment from an AMC because I don't do that kind of work. Which is why I didn't vote in the poll.

WRT your first comment, of course they use the phrase as a negotiation point, and of course they're not always successful at getting that assignment placed. But in order for it to be a lie when they use that line on an appraiser they would have to know in advance (as opposed to 2 days later after they failed) that they would be unable to place that order for that fee.

Which brings me back to my other 2 questions:

Do you think they're often successful at getting the sub-par fee?

And if not, if the $300 bait they're dangling never works for them then why would any of you complain about $300 fees?

----------------------

This is all tangental to the primary point of discussion about organizing and collective bargaining, except to the point that the only way you'll get a functional picket line among appraisers and not have individuals crossing over for their own individual interests is if you employ death squads to keep all your peers in line.

 

[gregb]

Your time may arrive where your bank clients turn to AMC solution. I have been largely been spared from this experience.

No one is talking about hammer & sickle death squads to bolster appraisers efforts to equalize the scales between appraisers and clients. There is always persuasion, education, information and peer pressure...which I am sure you did not intentionally leave out of your last paragraph.

 

[George Hatch]

Obviously, I know better than to say "never", so I won't.

With that said, the CGs in California don't have to fight the same gross oversupply situation that plagues our SL/CRs.

The last time I looked, there were 3174 CGs in California, which is lower than its ever been in the last 20 years. By comparison, there are still 23% more SL/CRs in 2017 than there were in 2003. THAT is why SFR fees in this state are as low as they are.

And of course I'm using some hyperbole to make the point that the union's primary adversaries is the probability that its own members will act in their individual interests. Moreover, the union will have no way of even knowing about it when it happens, let alone prevent it.

Edit to add: I misspoke. The 3174 number was from a couple months ago. As of a minute ago the number is now 3162.

 

[Michigan CG]

Supposedly, I cannot confirm, that the AMC phone people get bonuses for obtaining the lowest fees. Do I think that the AMC person offering $300 is low-balling or going after fees that have typically been accepted in an area? Yes, I think that is true. Someone has excepted $300 in that market in the past or maybe $325 but it is now January and they can try to lower the fee and some appraiser wants to pay off their CC bill from Christmas.

Does the AMC phone person (former Taco Bell employee) offer $300 fees in the COW states? I think that would be a waste of time, but I would bet they are offering $500 or $600 or maybe even $700. If phone person calls me offering $200 less than what is typical then I will have little incentive to answer their next phone call or be friendly if I do answer the next call when they are desperate.

No matter how it is sliced or diced, it all comes down to supply and demand.